Telling the Right Story: Secrets to Forging Successful Partnerships with Strategics | LSI Europe '24

Ken Nelson 00:00
 Ken, maybe we'll start out with some brief introductions and jump right into it. So I'm Ken Nelson with the MedTech Advantage Fund. We are investing, or will be investing exclusively in alumni companies of MedTech Innovator. Prior to that, I commercialized a company called Irhythm, then BioTelemetry, and then Barty Diagnostics. 

Elizabeth Hoff 00:26
 Great. I'm Elizabeth Hoff. I'm a prior VP and GM at Medtronic in cardiac diagnostic implantables. I left big corporate America about 15 years ago, and this is my second CEO role of a startup. I'm now currently in the plastic surgery space. 

Bhavesh Barot 00:44
 Thank you. Good morning. My name is Bhavesh Barot. I'm currently a general manager at GE HealthCare and recently joined, having had a long career at Medtronic, where I was responsible for their surgical innovations business. 

Liam Burns 00:58
 I'm Liam Burns, the CEO of Qaelon Medical. This is my third CEO role. I started my career at Ethicon in the BioSurgery and minimally invasive surgery space and have been working there ever since. 

Ken Nelson 01:12
 When you think about the importance of the story that you're going to tell to strategics, there's a lot that's important in the whole process and doing your homework. So, Elizabeth, where would you start? 

Elizabeth Hoff 01:26
 Yeah, I meet a lot of young entrepreneurs who have not worked at big strategics, and what I tell them is to read a book on sales. Generally, they're engineers or fresh out of school. I say, you know, you need to read up on who you're meeting with. What is that company? Read the annual report, where are they going? And then get to who you're meeting with. What is that person? What's their title? Do your homework. My number one thing is to show up at a strategic having done your homework on them and their business and their business goals. 

Bhavesh Barot 02:05
 Anything to add to that? 

Bhavesh Barot 02:06
 I think just to build on that. I mean, imagine you're going to a job interview, right? You're going to prepare for that interview. You're going to understand who the stakeholders are, who's on the panel, really sort of mapping out the individuals there as well. And so I think definitely doing your homework is super important, and making sure you understand who the key stakeholders are as well, which is so different in a big corporate environment compared to maybe a smaller startup world. 

Bhavesh Barot 02:35
 I would add that the homework goes beyond the last earnings call, the quarterly report. I always find that getting on the phone with salespeople, with sales leaders really gives you the insight on what's happening right now for that organization. What are they worried about? What's coming? What is the management philosophy? And in today's LinkedIn world, you can look up and get those frontline people that are right on the cusp, they're right in front of their main customers, and get some great information there. 

Ken Nelson 03:11
 So in terms of the story that you're telling and the pitch deck, some people will use the same deck regardless of who they're talking to, which I think is a big mistake. How would you change the story based on the strategic that you're talking to? 

Elizabeth Hoff 03:26
 That's a good question, Ken. I think most entrepreneurs go to the what right away, which is their technology. It's, you know, my technology, my technology, as opposed to how it fits into the organization's business. So I would, to Liam's point, understand what is their sales force, what's in their bag, and translate the what into how it helps the sales force and where it'll fit in. So I would change the pitch deck according to how it ultimately will be commercialized within that strategic and how it may or may not help them. 

Bhavesh Barot 04:03
 Yeah, I think if I can add in what I find a lot of the times, and even coming over to here where I'm reaching out, well, people are reaching out to me, is I'm finding people coming with a problem, looking for a solution. And if they've pivoted the other way around and said, "Here's where I see a gap in your portfolio, here's where I could help you build that market leadership position, and here's a lever to be able to do that," you then start talking their language as well. And you talked about the analyst reports. I mean, most big strategics out there, they want to go and drive top-line growth. They want to go into fast-growing markets. And so if you can already start saying, "Hey, this is a lever that you could pull that's going to enable you to go and drive top-line growth. This is something that's going to allow you to be more accretive to your bottom line," then you start talking their language there as well. 

Ken Nelson 04:59
 So if they come in and pitch and they're not talking your language, do you help them out, or do you just let them run with their story? 

Bhavesh Barot 05:12
 I guess it depends on the pitch, and it depends on how open they are as well. And you talked about some of the CEOs and founders as well, because it's their baby, because they built this product, they're so passionate about it, sometimes they miss that additional context there as well. And so, you know, I've come to, you know, one of the MedTech Advantage pitches, right? And you talk about these individuals being coachable, are they willing to listen? Yeah, right. And I think that's when you can decide, "Hey, here's where I would," but then also knowing that when you've got 20 or 30 people, and I'm in the commercial side, so imagine for somebody in the BD side that is being pinged constantly, do they have that patience? Do they have that time to have that luxury to be able to say, "Well, actually, how about you pivot it and how about you change your dialogue?" I don't think they get so focused on 80% of the time being on their story, right? And just like a good sales presentation, 80% is listening and 20% is talking. And so I've seen where generous strategics have injected the questions early, and I think that's really telling. For an entrepreneur or CEO, when you get a question fired at you after the third slide, you have to realize you're on the pathway that they're not interested in, because if they're already getting their questions, they've understood your story, especially now where you pre-send your deck. They've looked at your deck for five minutes before you showed up, so they have an idea of where to take it. And I think you have to listen to that and adjust. So being able to adjust to where the meeting is going is super powerful. 

Ken Nelson 07:06
 Right? So, what about, you know, I hear this question a lot, and people say, "When do I engage strategics? At what point?" So I'd love to get your take on that. 

Elizabeth Hoff 07:17
 As a CEO, you've heard it over and over in these meetings, that it's building a relationship. But I also think you don't make an ask in the very first meeting. I like to use the words, "I just want to get on your radar screen or develop a relationship." And then you've heard it before, you say what you're going to do in the next quarter. That gives you a reason to connect with that large company later and say, "Hey, I told you I was going to do this, and this is what I did." But don't go in in the first meeting being all gangbusters on, "This is what I want right now." It's really be a little soft and just get on the radar screen. 

Bhavesh Barot 07:57
 I think it's now and always. And I think about, you know, one of the deals I did with Dexter Medical, where that exit with Beaver and Ask you Lab started with a relationship 20 years before, with one of the leaders that I worked with in Spain. Now, he was the leader of the sales organization for Beaver and Ask you Lab in Spain, and they were basically the trial ground for whether or not the corporate would bring you in. And so that relationship started there. It also took some digging to find out that if you're a new minimally invasive surgery product, they test drive all of them in Spain, because Spain for them is one of their top-performing organizations. 

Ken Nelson 08:43
 So the other question I get a lot is, where do I start? Like, what are the titles that I should be talking to? You know, do I go to the highest person first, or do I start lower and kind of go up the ring? So I'd love to get your take on that. 

Bhavesh Barot 09:01
 I think it's super important to do that. And of course, the simple or the easy sort of go-to is the BD lead, right? So that's one of the stakeholders that you could definitely go to. But I already mentioned how many individuals will be reaching out to them on a daily basis, and that's not their day job, right? I've got their attention to actually respond. 

Ken Nelson 09:32
 And what are you looking for when people reach out? 

Bhavesh Barot 09:37
 So, I think for that individual, again, it depends on what the business leader is asking them to fulfill, right? So, for example, big strategics are going to have a BD individual within that team; they will have a mandate to be able to go and identify potential opportunities there. Now, what are those opportunities for? Where are they going? Is it in new adjacencies? Is it to go and drive top-line growth? Is it to go and help the bottom line, right? And so you need to try and better understand that. But why I was referring to the stakeholders, they are only one stakeholder, and a lot of the times, as you say, in the US, those individuals are there to give you the Heisman, right? So then what do you do? Do you just stop and say, "Okay, fine, right? They've said thanks, but no thanks." And do we stop that? No, because then there's another individual you could go out to, and whether it's the Chief Medical Officer, is it somebody in sales, your friend in Italy, or, sorry, in Spain, that you knew that you could go and reach out to and say, "Hey, can you help me?" Because guess what, when the business comes up and the business being the region, or the business at the top comes in and says, "This is an attractive technology that could allow me to get new market share or be a talking acquisition," then the person in BD is going to change their mind and potentially look in a different way. 

Bhavesh Barot 11:06
 So I've just mentioned a handful of stakeholders within that standpoint. So I think adapting it, mapping out the stakeholders. And you know, when I was working for Truffle, in a fund, that's exactly what I was doing. I was mapping out, you know, whether it was a cardiology product, mapping out all the strategics. Map it as a simple table. Who's the head of BD within that division? Who is the Chief Medical Officer within that division? Who is the head of global sales? Who are the regional sales? And guess what? LinkedIn can help you there as well. And then the last thing, you know we talked about, I said it started with CV. Now I'm going to go to dating, right? You're not going to propose on the first date, right? Or not in today's world anyway. So events like LSI are great because you can just do something in the soft format. You can meet somebody and say, "Hey, by the way, just to get on your radar, this is who I am," softly, lightly, not too invasively. And then guess what? The next event you can speak to them and catch up and start building the relationship and the rapport there as well. 

Elizabeth Hoff 12:10
 If I could say something, Ken, I shall agree with this. Often you'll meet younger entrepreneurs, and they said, "Well, we're in discussions with Medtronic," that means nothing. And I said, "Well, what's the title of the person that you're speaking with?" And they may not know the title. You've got to work the org chart. And I sit with young entrepreneurs, and I mentor them about what even the org chart is, or they believe that they can get a $5 million check from an R&D manager, and they've stuck for five years with an R&D manager, and I said they don't have the authority to pull a $5 million check out, you know? So you've got to maneuver around the org chart. Know whose reports to whom? You know who the CMO is, what the difference between BD and a business unit leader is. And if they want to be a student of a big company, if they want to be a student in the business, they have to learn what org charts are and respect them and work it and don't stick with one person. 

Liam Burns 13:11
 I don't think you can swim upstream against the BD process. And so one of the things I would encourage people to do is find something that's a little mysterious, but you know that it's in the middle of the target area. And so we're in that, you know, resume scanning world where you get 30 seconds to look at a person when you're making a hire. So the title of your email is basically going to determine whether they're going to read it or not. And then I think one of the curses of many leaders is they want to tell their whole story in the email. Anyone looks at an email, if it's more than three lines, I'm out. They're not going to read it. And so I think that title line, I use something as simple as "$2.7 billion breakthrough technology for leak detection." If you know what leak detection is, 2.7 says it's big. I want to find out more. I'm going to read your three lines. And if those are intriguing, you can continue down there. I think the other part is, don't forget about the marketing leaders. The marketing leaders are not formally part of the BD process, but one of the first calls of a project or a product that gets us through, "Hey, we want to look at this. Let's talk to the marketing leader. What do they think?" And those are informal relationships that those are the people that want to stay in tune with what's going on in the market. So your new technology is interesting for them. 

Ken Nelson 14:35
 So one of the mistakes I see at a conference like this is when someone's meeting with the strategic, they've got 20 or 30 minutes, and they think they're going to sell them on their idea in those 20 minutes. Really, the goal is to get that longer meeting and to get them interested enough to get that longer meeting. So what kind of advice would you have for people at a meeting like this? In that 20 minutes they have to tell their story? 

Liam Burns 15:02
 The first thing I'd say is, if you pull out your slide deck and you're focused on getting through your 20 slides, you have already lost. You've got to start with how much time do you have with that person and try to just get them interested enough. I think so many CEOs, they have a script that goes with their slides, and when the slides aren't in front of them, they don't know how to tell the story. So I've been selling. I've been a commercial leader for 20 years. You can do the elevator pitch. You need to practice it. It needs to be 15 to 30 seconds and then start asking questions. A meeting I had yesterday with a major strategic, "How do you define a strategic partnership?" Before I answered, I got their answer, and so I could tailor and adjust my communication to what they were looking for. 

Ken Nelson 15:56
 Anything to add to that? 

Bhavesh Barot 15:57
 No, I agree. I think get them talking before you start talking. Try and understand where they're at. You talked about the 80/20 split. I go back to when I was a sales rep; we used to call it consultative selling skills, right? That's what we're doing. You're trying to better understand their world and then come in with that solution, as opposed to, "Here's a problem, here's a problem, here's a problem. Do you have a solution?" and trying to fit it in that way. So to get them talking, get them engaged. It's the first day, not the last one. It is important. Don't misunderstand me, but this should be the opportunity to get them so interested. Say, "Hey, let's come back and meet again." So don't try and, you know, drown them at the moment with all the information there as well. 

Ken Nelson 16:42
 So one of the things you mentioned earlier was that consistency going and then saying you're going to do these three things, and a quarter later coming back and showing that you did it. How important is that to do that on a regular basis? 

Elizabeth Hoff 16:58
 I think it's very important. It's hard to strike the balance. You don't want to do too much and be pestering, but you also want to continue to engage. I think as CEOs of small companies, we run, and I know that now, being on that side, you run at such a pace, but do pull back and kind of be cool. You know, just be cool. The strategics are just a very different animal, and you need to strike a balance. Snippets are better in terms of updates, not dissertations. You know, at Medtronic, I don't know where it is now in the best in large companies, but I got, you know, 350 emails a day, you know, plus I was in meetings 90% of the time. How am I possibly going to read that? So, you know, snippets, updates, happiness to make their job better. If you connect with them, let's say you go to a strategic and they have fishing on the wall, or they have academic degrees or photos of their kids, they're telling you who they are. Maybe you connect in that way. They went to the University of Chicago. Maybe you feel like you have a good connection with them. And you're in Chicago, you snap a photo saying, "Hey, I was thinking about you, and I told you I was going to do this, and I did it. Would love to catch up when you have the opportunity." So it is sales 101. If you've never been in sales as a CEO, then read a few sales books, open-ended questions, get to know your customer, tailor your message. 

Bhavesh Barot 18:32
 I think there's also some benefit in a little mystery, not telling everything. So we all fight to get the strategic to sign the NDA, and now we can give them all this information. Well, the NDA doesn't say you have to share everything. It says you need to share the information that's relevant to pull them along. And you know, sometimes a little mystery goes a long way. 

Ken Nelson 18:58
 So when you're telling that story and maybe giving some mystery, do you tell the same story to every stakeholder, or do you craft it slightly different message, even if it's the same organization, based on who you're talking to? 

Liam Burns 19:13
 It's got to be different. The salesperson is worried about next quarter's number or the product launch that they know about and you don't. So that's one of the reasons why asking questions is so important; you don't know what's coming, and they're not going to share that with you. So a salesperson is worried about their next quarter or their next year. A marketing person is worried about, "Well, I've got this product launch coming in two years." You're going to get FDA clearance at the same time that I'm launching the biggest product I've ever launched in my business. You've got to have different conversations based on that. 

Elizabeth Hoff 19:50
 And be cautious of the R&D role, because if you're only speaking with R&D leaders, they're tempted to say, "Well, we can do this internally." And you know where the business unit leaders and BD is thinking, "Well, maybe we can do it internally. But why would we?" So you don't want to just get stuck in R&D. You want to manage the BD role. You don't want to anger them. But if you're with only one person in a strategic and you're cautious to break glass to go around them, you're not going to win. You've got to maneuver around the organization in a broader fashion than just R&D or just BD. And I find people get stuck in either R&D or BD, and they don't want to anger that person and go around them. 

Bhavesh Barot 20:39
 And I know all of us have been in strategics ourselves, but it was called, it was a key competency, which was called working the matrix, right? So that's what we're recommending, is to work the matrix. So you need three people at the board level or at the decision level to get a deal done. You need three. 

Ken Nelson 20:58
 What are those key people in general that you need to get interested? Is it the CMO? Is it the CEO? Is it the CFO? Is it all of them, or is it the divisional leader? Like, who should you be targeting to get that backing? 

Elizabeth Hoff 21:16
 I think it depends on the organization. So there are very sales-driven organizations, so you have to have that salesperson. I think you always have to have the CFO or whoever's looking at the model. And then it's a matter of who else has influence, who's the one looking at where the organization is. If your technology is really 2 to 3 years away, that's a different person than if you're ready to do a deal today and get distribution. Then it becomes more business unit-focused. 

Bhavesh Barot 21:45
 I mean, I remember when we were kind of prepping for this, we talked about who's in the room when the final decision gets made. So would you like to get some insight on that? 

Elizabeth Hoff 21:54
 Without divulging confidential information, I mean, in the end, I was down in, gosh, where was it, Belize, on vacation, and it got down to whether or not we would acquire a company. And there were just three of us on the phone, and you know, one of the questions was, "Do we like the CEO?" And in this particular case, the answer wasn't so positive. And just find out as an entrepreneur who will be in the room and on that call in the very end, and that's an appropriate question to ask your contacts, you know, in the end, who makes the decision? That's a very appropriate question. If you don't ask it, you know, shame on you, because they're not going to get irritated by that. 

Bhavesh Barot 22:38
 Right? And then I would just add, depending on the size of the strategic you're talking about, the entrepreneur very well may not even be in that room. So making sure that you've got your champions, you've armed the divisional leader enough with the information they're able to then adapt that story and the message and craft it in that way. But also, you know, we talk about that there's a business reason, there is a clinical reason as well. There's a strategic reason. But also, think on the outside, because all the strategics are public listed companies. So who are they going out there to craft the story for as well? It's the shareholders. So how would the shareholders read this? And that is super important, depending on the levers. The other thing I would add was as well, that some of the strategics are a lot more fluid in terms of the interactions with BD and transactions. And what I mean by that is, you know, they will have a set rhythm. Some may be, you know, weekly, right? So the CEO will check on the pipeline and look at opportunities on a weekly basis. Some strategics may be on a monthly basis as well. So trying to fit within that window. But I do think back to Liam's point earlier, understanding what's happening externally, what the message is out to the street, because a lot of the strategics will already indicate that they're about to go shopping, just to test the water, right? And to test the shareholders that ultimately are going to say yay or nay and going to read it as a positive transaction as well. So again, it's just worth considering that factor as well. 

Ken Nelson 24:17
 You just started getting into the process a bit, which is great. I think it's very important to understand, in general, what the process is. Every company's process is a little bit different. But in general, can you give some idea of what the general process is that you typically see? 

Liam Burns 24:36
 I think it first starts with strategic fit. So that's always, in my experience, going to be where they look first. Does this sit with where we are and where we're going? And I think we get so focused on product categories that sometimes you lose the context of, I'll talk about robotic surgery. For example, robotic surgery has been in the hospital since its inception. And now it's transitioning into the ambulatory surgery centers. So if you're focused on just your product in the OR and the hospital, you're missing out on where it is going. Where's the procedural growth going? And so to me, that's the starting point: is the strategic fit. Then you get into the impact on the financials. And, you know, strategics are busy. They have massive portfolios. Even individual business units have more than one product. And so I'm one of eight kids, and when I grew up, unless I was bleeding or dying, it was tough to get the attention of my parents, right? And so it's not indifferent, or it's not different than that in a strategic where, if there's a lead product, and you take energy away from that lead product, that's going to impact the strategic. But now you're into the numbers. I have 200 sales reps or 500 sales reps; I'm going to allocate their time financially to the financial model. So I think that's that second, and then last comes down to the cultural fit. And Elizabeth touched on that. They need to want to bring you into the organization. You may exit as CEO. Your leadership may be redundant and eventually phased out as part of the transition, but those first two years, the success of that comes back to a cultural fit. And I think that's the three kind of major buckets that are approached in my experience. 

Bhavesh Barot 26:27
 I think cultural fit, to continue the Belize story, the second question is, "If we don't purchase this technology, who will? Who else will?" And strategics are motivated by competition almost as much as adding to their bag. So understand that you want to touch and gently play that competitive edge. You don't want to disclose who else you're talking with, but strategics are motivated by who else might buy this, and they want to continue to have market share and stay ahead of their competitors. So in my opinion, an appropriate question to ask a business unit leader is, "What company are you most concerned about, or that you believe is your biggest competitor in the next one to five years?" And then you know what their vulnerability is, and you know who they're focused on. 

Ken Nelson 27:29
 Do you think it's appropriate for a startup to ask what the process is? And if they do that, do you typically tell them? 

Bhavesh Barot 27:38
 I think it's fair. I think it's a very valid question in terms of what the process is. I mean, it's not something you would say in the first meeting, of course, but I think it's very appropriate. And it's you asking a genuine question to understand the process, what you're going to need to be, what request once you get into the data room, what's going to be the flow like? Yes, I don't think you'd get any pushback. 

Ken Nelson 28:00
 From a timing standpoint, it's so hard to know when you're going to get back to the startup. What's appropriate follow-up as a founder? You know, how often should they be following up if they don't hear back from you? And what's being a pest? 

Liam Burns 28:21
 I think there's a little bit of a double standard. First of all, when you promise information to a strategic, you've got 24 hours to respond. You say, "I'm going to send you this," you've got 24 hours. I think two weeks is the time where you follow up gently. You know, if you're throwing a tantrum and yelling and being any energy in your email or your follow-up, by the way, pick up the phone. No one picks up the phone. And if you can start a text relationship with the people you're talking to, a lot of what we do, it's one less email. And I've used that currently with a couple of strategics that I'm talking with, those were based on relationships, though, or where we are now dialoguing that way. The last thing you want to do is get a text from somebody on Friday night at five o'clock when you're with your family. So I think two weeks is the sweet spot for a gentle follow-up. 

Bhavesh Barot 29:17
 We touched on this a little bit earlier, but if we were to narrow it down to the three most important things that a P&L owner cares about most, what would you say those are? 

Elizabeth Hoff 29:32
 Staying one step ahead of my competitor, trying not to be dilutive, and adding to my sales force's bag. 

Ken Nelson 29:44
 And so how do you determine when you're talking to the strategic? How do you get a feel for if they're looking at you as an investment or more of an M&A transaction? 

Bhavesh Barot 30:01
 It depends on the strategic, and it depends, again, historically, what they've done as well. Some strategics will not look at you until you've got data, until you've generated some revenue as well, whereas other strategics will be willing to take that bet. And so it depends on the risk appetite of that strategic to determine whether they're going to look at potentially making a strategic investment versus they're going to wait and be comfortable paying more multiples when they're looking at a de-risk investment from purchase. 

Ken Nelson 30:37
 And how would you, if you're a startup and you're talking to a strategic, how do you handle the question of, "Are you planning on commercializing this technology?" Because that often gets asked and sometimes versus killing it. 

Liam Burns 30:51
 Yeah, I think that drives the deal. I think every startup needs to be prepared to go into the market. Often strategics react in fear. They don't. They're not going to be afraid of you until you've taken five major customers. So when you think about your go-to-market, they're more afraid when you walk in and you say, "We just signed the Cleveland Clinic, or Mayo Clinic, or New York Presbyterian." Or it's different for every, you know, who are the thought-leading centers. That's, I think, when you get their attention much faster. But you have to be prepared to do that. Otherwise, and this is where the team, we haven't talked about the team, it's not just the CEO. If you're a technology inventor and you don't have a very strong Chief Commercial Officer, they're going to think that you're afraid to commercialize your technology because you're not a commercial leader. So you've got to bring that person; they've got to be part of the team where they know that, "Okay, I have confidence that Liam can launch this product and take a couple of market share points and prove to me that we, when we use our 500-person sales force, we can multiply those early sales times 500 reps." 

Bhavesh Barot 32:10
 So what else do you think it's important for a startup to think about if in the first discussion you tell them you're not really interested right now? Do they come back a week later, a month later, six months later? What's an appropriate time to come back if you've already told them no? 

Elizabeth Hoff 32:31
 Not a week, definitely not a week. It looks like a pest. You know? I don't know. I think you're going to have to tailor your approach and just have some self-confidence. And again, it's like dating. You sort of want to be cool; just do the right approach. You don't want to scurry away because strategics do admire passion and grit, and they want to see that you're persistent and passionate, but don't anger them. You know, they're people. 

Bhavesh Barot 33:06
 Is it a no, or is it a not right now? Nice, and you've got to figure that out. 

Elizabeth Hoff 33:11
 That's why I would say qualify the no, right? Is it no because you don't have enough clinical data at the minute? Is it no because you haven't built some commercial traction at the moment? Is it no because you haven't got the regulatory approval, and you know, you still have had your pre-sub meeting with the FDA? What is that no? And then even if, is it no, it's not a strategic fit for now. As part of back to the earlier question, I like the sort of quarterly newsletters from the startup, saying, "Hey, you know," and it's not invasive. It's just, "Here's what's happened in my world in the last, you know, three months," or celebrating a milestone, which is, "Hey, just to let you know we just got the FDA nod," or "Just to let you know we've got to now, first in human," you know, with a headline, a newsworthy headline that you can then go back with. And again, it's gentle, it's soft. Just a reminder to say, "Hey, those guys are still there, and they're progressing, and they're delivering on what they said they would do as well." 

Bhavesh Barot 34:09
 Create FOMO. 

Elizabeth Hoff 34:12
 That's it. So I agree with you. The one thing I would say, though, is you don't want to send a 10-page clearly update. What do you think is appropriate? Is it two pages? 

Bhavesh Barot 34:24
 Two paragraphs, two paragraphs. "Hey, you know, title? We just got FDA clearance," yeah, or "We just raised a $20 million Series B." It could be as simple as that, just keeping you in touch with what's going on. People appreciate brevity. It's the major news, not the full story. If they're curious, they're going to look up your press release, or they're going to check out your website and see what got updated on your news section. 

Bhavesh Barot 34:50
 I used to tease one of my team members, brevity is an art form, and so for me personally, sending bullets. And then I love hyperlinking. So if I'm going to click into it, if I'm interested, depending on the bullets, then I'll click in. I'll hyperlink it, and then go and get more information there as well. So keep it brief, keep it concise, and then allow them to click into it. I've seen, again, some smart, more sophisticated startups there as well that will then have that hyperlink connected to a microsite. They'll be able to track it. They'll even know who's been in there, like a demand generation campaign, right? We talked about LinkedIn, but, you know, I really see today reaching out to a strategic or an investor. You have to leverage an omni-channel approach, right? So, we talk about emails each time. You know, I think events like LSI are a great platform as well. We talk about LinkedIn, right? Where else can we go and reach the audience as well? And I think LinkedIn is a big platform as well that you can go out there and then reach out to them as well. 

Ken Nelson 35:55
 You brought up the FOMO factor; that's one of my favorite parts of the game. What's the best way to leverage that, in your opinion? 

Elizabeth Hoff 36:04
 You know, you go first. 

Liam Burns 36:06
 So fear is a double-edged emotion down. It can be very negative and be threatening, or it can be, "Gosh, I don't want to miss this party. I don't want to miss this $200 million opportunity." And so I think you need to be very subtle about that. No competitor wants you to say, "Well, we're going to go to, you know, if you're Carl Stuart, we're going to go to Stryker. If you're Stryker, we're going to Karl Stuart." Said, "Man, those conversations are going great." Instead of saying, "We know that you're worried about, you know, in the video tower business today, everyone's worried about the ambulatory surgery center." Talk about how we can overcome the challenges where you're worried about it, and so sometimes you don't have to scratch the wound of fear just to say, "Hey, this is what we see in the market." As people are worried about people, meaning everyone, and especially you. But when you point at somebody and you say you should be worried about that, I think their reaction is negative instead of, you know, a positive. 

Bhavesh Barot 37:13
 And know your audience, because you know somebody potentially in a BD role, yes, you may go to another competitor. Okay, you know, what's the worst? They're going to get shouted; they are going to lose their job? No, no, it's highly unlikely, right? So I think the FOMO factor, you have to really use it delicately. Where I've seen it work effectively is when you're working through an intermediary, is when you're working with a bank, and I'm talking, you know, a bank, or one of the big names, one of the blue-chip banks. I'm talking about when they go and because they have those relationships, right? And so when a bank is saying to the strategic and to the head over there, "Guys, they know already that the bank will not have only approached them, and the bank will come and the bank has been able to apply pressure and say, 'Guys, I need to go back and I need an answer within the next 14 days.'" And I've seen strategics move to be able to go and meet that timeline as well. So I think working with intermediaries can very much help because they know that they've done that as well from that standpoint. But know the audience, and I would not drop to cart and say, "Hey, well, if, if, then you know, I am going to go and reach a little Chris," because they'll be like, "Okay, good luck. Why wouldn't you have anyway?" 

Ken Nelson 38:29
 Right, right? So is it okay to say that you're talking to Medtronic? And Medtronic's very interested. If you're talking to Boston Scientific, I wouldn't. 

Elizabeth Hoff 38:41
 I wouldn't drop names. I wouldn't drop names, but it looks like comic books or football teams. There's always an arch-enemy that has strategic rallies around maybe two, but often one, and you just need to know who that is. Do not bring up the archenemy, but know that you should be in a conversation with both just so, if nothing else, give you more confidence. 

Liam Burns 39:03
 I think they expect you to talk to everyone. If you're only talking to one strategic, why would you only talk to one? So I don't, I'm less worried about mentioning they know who their archenemy is. You know, I grew up in Ethicon; Medtronic and Covidien were archenemies. And now Bhavesh and I are friends, so we've gotten over that. But they expect you to talk to their number one competitor. I think it's the way you do it. We believe that the value for you is this. And they're also listening, going, "Well, how does that help my archenemy?" And so in the tone, the emotion, which goes back to when you tell your story, it's got to be as a human being. Those executives are not only, you know, they're not going to lose their job because they didn't do a deal correctly, but they also have an individual amount of political capital in their organization. Are they going to bet on Liam? Are they going to bet on Qaelon Technology? Am I going to put my name, my future? Because then I've got that attached to me. So when that deal gets done, it better be successful. And am I willing to put my limited internal organizational capital on that deal? 

Bhavesh Barot 40:14
 Yeah, and if I could add that, you know, back to what I said at the beginning, doing your homework is so important, right? So you can do it in a subtle way. So here's a subtle way, an example that I've seen very effective when you've shown the market position of structural heart space as an example, right? And LSI has got a beautiful platform, MedTech Pro, that can help you get that right stuff. But, and we've leveraged as well, in my former life, when you're able to show the market share in the market positioning, and you're able to show this strategic is, "Hey, by the way, you know, you haven't named and shamed them, but you know, reality is numbers don't lie. They are 10 in that share position, or they're a 5% player. And here's how we could potentially help you shift the weighting there as well." It's a different way of doing it without saying, "Hey, I'm going to go to those guys. Here's what's going to help you to get over there as well." 

Ken Nelson 41:07
 That said, there's a ton more. I'm sure we could talk about it looks like we're out of time, but great discussion. And I appreciate it.