AgeTech Headwinds, Tailwinds, and Unmet Needs for the Global Aging Population | LSI Europe '24

Henry Peck 00:00
Thank you, everyone, for being here, for joining us for this panel on age tech, the headwinds, tailwinds, and unmet needs facing the global aging population. Before we start, I know my not-so-pretty face is on this panel, but there's a moderator who couldn't be here, unfortunately, Raisa, who had to fly home. She helped really put this panel together, bring together the investors, and set the outline. So I'm just going to be here helping execute her vision and staying out of the way. Before we get going, we'll have everybody introduce themselves quickly. Let's do like a one-sentence intro on yourself and your fund mandate, what you focus on, and we'll start over with Gal.

Gal Noyman 00:34
Cool. Hi, everyone. Pleasure to meet you. I'm Dr. Gal Noyman. I'm a partner at LionBird, an early-stage digital health fund targeting the U.S. healthcare system and investing out of Chicago and Tel Aviv.

Soyoung Park 00:48
Hi, I'm representing VU Venture Partners. VU Venture Partners is a generalist fund located in San Francisco and Hong Kong. We are a global fund that supports futuristic, transformative technology. I'll give you one more, another fund, 1004 Venture Partners, is a new fund I co-founded, and we are looking for transformative technologies for healthy aging. Nicole?

Nicole J. Walker 01:19
Hi, everyone. Nicole Walker. I'm an investment advisor with a handful of funds that focus on either biotech solutions or medtech solutions. But today, I'm representing on the panel my board roles, not only with the Alzheimer's Association but also Rush Medical, and as a daughter who's been a full-time caregiver for the past year.

Henry Peck 01:39
We have folks, investors here that wear many hats across different companies and healthcare organizations. Let's start from the broad perspective. What is age tech? As we get into this, I want to set where the bumpers are and what the aperture is here because I think it can sometimes be seen as very, very narrow. But as you start to widen the aperture of all the things that affect the aging population and go into healthy aging, it can get broader. So Nicole, why don't we start with you?

Nicole J. Walker 02:02
Sure, I think you hit on it. What does it mean to age in the space that you want to and in the way that you want to? To me, that is really age tech, and it can be anything from a service to a lifestyle to the housing choices that you need to make. Thinking that through, along with your financial planning, it's really all-encompassing. I almost think about it as just a transition. You've transitioned from being single to married, from maybe being a parent to an empty nester, and now, as you continue to age, all those things affect all of those components.

Soyoung Park 02:41
So age, not just age tech. I want to talk about the aging process. My thesis is healthy aging. I don't think aging is just for older seniors. Actually, when you're born, your aging path just basically starts; it's growth, and then you're very old. So it's the whole process. We encounter a lot of changes in the body, mentally and in all kinds of environments. We face a lot of different situations and how we actually take care of ourselves. I see it as an aging lifestyle. I'm not really talking only about the senior area; I'm also talking about the young juvenile who wants to grow, and this is also an aging process. So all technology applies throughout the cycle, in my opinion.

Henry Peck 03:37
Let's double-click for a minute on technology for an older population, Gal, focusing on digital technologies for a moment. There are many different types of technologies we'll touch on, but in the digital health world, what are some of the biggest opportunities or unmet needs you see that digital technology can solve? Maybe reference either some companies you've seen or been a part of, or more opportunities you'd like to tackle in the future.

Gal Noyman 03:59
So connecting to the definition first and foremost, when we think digital, we need to think not only about how we diagnose and treat conditions or life states and wellness in the third age but also how we pay for and consume healthcare services, which is an important part. I think the opportunities are so diverse when you think about the fact that chronic conditions that people at these ages suffer from a lot of the time include four, five, or six different chronic conditions. In the States, it could range from treating patients at home. We have a company, Heyda Health, that is virtual-first primary care for Medicare Advantage in rural areas where you don't have access to clinicians. Labor shortage is one of the major drivers of this space as well. Another great opportunity and a company connected to that is in the world of engaging these patients. What's hard when you think about these patients is that a lot of the time, driving engagement and behavior activation is very hard. We need that to influence clinical and financial outcomes. We have a company, One Step, in the world of digital gait analysis, the fifth vital sign, which is very critical for people in this age. The way they do it is by using your mobile device passively. Why is it important? Because if you're trying to drive someone who is 80 and has challenges walking and is at home, and you want to get an accurate assessment of their motor skills, you need the technology that will drive that change. So I think of the opportunities; it's so diverse, but really we need to tap into understanding how to influence these members, and we need to factor in that a lot of the time, they will be at home, and we will need to solve that issue.

Nicole J. Walker 06:09
Can I just add one point to what Gal was speaking to? One of the biggest areas or opportunities I see is being able to connect all of the information that you have out here on a given patient. A lot of times, we will discuss with our companies if there's a way for us to interact with the Veterans Association in the U.S. because it's such a rich one-stop shop for data, as they essentially have an enclosed population. I'll give you an example from my father's experience. They knew, because of his exposure to toxins, that he would have an 80% chance of developing hypertension, diabetes, Parkinson's, and dementia. His primary physician had no access to that data. So until his initial diagnosis, which took us two years to get to, everyone on his medical team was blind. Imagine how powerful you could be as an individual if you had insights to that much earlier on, before you had any symptoms that you were trying to manage. That's where I think, as we look at these new technologies, having machine learning that can dip into these data sets, having better software tools that can connect different systems across the country, is huge. It gives a lot more flexibility in the aging process, no matter what your age is, to be able to make better choices. So that's where I think we really have a chance to be powerful as we think through these solutions and how to improve the overall care delivery plan.

Henry Peck 07:43
I want to come back to this idea of connected systems and the care experience. But first, I want to double-click on something you said, Gal, around patient engagement. In our previous company, I worked with a digital diagnostic and cognitive screening tool for Alzheimer's, and the data and the efficacy in the controlled environment were very, very strong. We tried to put it on a patient's smartphone in the home, and forget about being able to do the test; they can't open the app because this is a mild to moderate Alzheimer's population. As we try to bring advanced technology to a space where you're dealing with a patient population that might either be less tech-savvy, you're dealing with a patient population where the patient is maybe not the only stakeholder you have—caregivers at home, children, and other family members involved—how do we bridge this gap? How do we bring advanced technology to a space that needs it and get it into the hands of patients that need it in a way that they can use it?

Soyoung Park 08:37
That one actually takes more time, but I have one founder in my portfolio. She developed RPM, remote patient monitoring. I actually hunted the API companies that can do data integration. I hunted for several years. I thought, "This is good enough," but I learned that maybe 90% of data has software. We can actually connect it without using APIs. The 10% of devices we are making don't have basic software. So my founder actually provides SDK so they can bundle with this device. 5% is literally nobody knows what it is, but the majority of people, these patients go home and receive one small device showing their blood pressure and weight. That's probably the most important data for the doctors, and they don't have fancy devices. Most of the time, they take a picture. I like this company because they cover 100%, not 95%. I found a lot of companies that cover 90%, and that's probably good enough, but we want 100%. If you see 360 degrees, then you feel confident, "Oh, you can cover beyond what we want to." If you have 90%, we always feel like something is missing. Also, patients in real life don't really have all the fancy devices; they need to measure. They just don't know how to use these fancy devices. So all they can do, at least, is take a picture and send it. This founder basically consolidates all the data and then sends it to the healthcare system. Now, still, we don't see that commonly; these companies are very, very early phase. They are bootstrapped and in seed rounds, and they are just going to enter the U.S. market. So I have huge hope, but we need more RPM. We have so many patients, and we also have an aging population. We probably need a little bit of tender care. Those are huge markets. We want to ensure that something they can use has a good UI/UX; they don't have any problems. They don't need to learn something new; they can just take a picture. This one is simple for them, so we actually need to help them access this technology in their way.

Henry Peck 11:30
Absolutely.

Henry Peck 11:33
I want to come back to your point around the care experience. I'm sure you know the stats probably better than I do here, but seniors in the U.S. are supposed to get an annual cognitive screening. What percent is the estimate of those that get an annual cognitive screening that should? Any guesses? It's super low, lower than that. Okay, even lower?

Nicole J. Walker 11:58
I would say 10%.

Henry Peck 12:00
Lower.

Gal Noyman 12:02
Way lower. Way, like six to eight.

Henry Peck 12:05
There you go. Essentially, they're not getting them. Part of that, as you said, is this disconnected care experience. One brilliant company that we saw in the Alzheimer's space was doing testing, going back to that for a moment, for the more developed aging population. They shifted from putting testing at a neurologist's office to putting testing at an OB/GYN because of the disproportionate effect that Alzheimer's has on women and the fact that women reliably see their OB/GYN annually, versus no one that doesn't already have severe dementia seeing a neurologist. What can tech companies do that want to access these channels and get to patients? How can they work in this very fragmented care ecosystem to get the things in the hands of the people that need it?

Nicole J. Walker 12:49
I can take it first, and then I think you should talk about your Care Neighbor portfolio company. But it's such an important question because I think for a long time as investors, we looked at opportunities, or we sometimes biased—I'll speak for myself; I sometimes biased towards opportunities where you could go to the specialist, as opposed to going to the primary care physician. When the reality is everything happens usually at the primary care doc, and you have two yearly appointments usually with your PCP in the U.S., and it may take you another six to eight months—let's use Alzheimer's—to go to a specialist and get on their calendar, if you are lucky, if your state has a neurologist. Out of the 50 states, not all of them have licensed neurologists. So it becomes really important to not only think about how you're delivering this new technology to the patient but how you're delivering it to their support systems. This shouldn't go on record, but my parents, my MyChart accounts, that's me. That's not Mr. and Mrs. Walker; that's me typing in and looking at their chart and reading what happened and having a discussion with them when they had those cognitive exams that the doctor doesn't have a chance to go through because the average visit in the U.S. is eight minutes. So there is a laundry list of things that we need to touch to get to better solutions. To your point earlier, I find the most commonality is with patients that are over 65 and for patients who are under the age of 12 in that pediatric population. The caregiver care management schemes that have to occur—you have to start to be much more creative in the messaging, what the tools look like, and where that access point is. I would argue that it can't be the specialty office anymore; it has to be fundamental. It has to be CVS, or great; it has to be wherever your footprint goes to on a regular basis that you trust so that you can engage with the technology but also feel comfortable with whatever information you're receiving from it.

Henry Peck 15:07
I want to hear about this portfolio company. Nicole has been talking it up, so I'm right here.

Nicole J. Walker 15:12
And I'm not an investor, but I think it's not—

Gal Noyman 15:16
Well, Nicole is talking about the challenges of caregiving and caregiving coordination. The portfolio company that was mentioned is Mellie. We need to address the challenges of the caregiver, the patient, and the nurse in assisted living facilities at the same time. There are a lot of layers here to factor in, also the logistics, financial, and clinical. I think it's important to say so they tap into the world of coordination between the different needs of the patient and the different caregivers to really help provide better care continuously. Remember, a lot of our patients at this age are at home, and they're difficult to engage. I want to hit another point that is relevant to that in terms of the data and the infrastructure. When we go to a hospital—whether we go to a hospital here at Hop Kids or whatnot—we have electronic medical records. We have infrastructure that has been operating in it that is standardized for a very long time. It's very different when you go to take, for example, assisted living facilities, the SNPs, where you have a lot of patients in this age, and they don't have that EMR. They have nurses that are tired with a lot of churn, and you need to factor in that they also need to contract with insurance companies to get that in-network physician for their patient. So when we're thinking data, we need to think about solving fragmentation to provide continuous care. The care continuum—these patients move from place to place to place, and they need us to watch them continuously.

Soyoung Park 17:18
Yeah, so I actually see now in America, probably a lot of primary caregivers turning to longevity clinics. They want to approach the holistic view. They basically become the one doctor who takes care of all your family, basically. So that's going back to the 19th century, in my opinion. But anyway, the model works. There's a lot of technology, and we build a lot of data, and then we just don't know what to do with it right now. Of course, we are building AI technology and then moving on to find the right method. But I want to go back to the caregiver problem. By 2030, we expect the aging, anti-aging, old self—all this kind of senior care market size will be $65 trillion. As a matter of fact, do you know how much of that is actually taken by caregivers? About 40% is caring. It's amazing. It's huge because labor is expensive, especially in the United States; labor is super expensive. And these are not just labor; it's a trend, especially labor. My solution, what I'm dreaming about, is I actually entered a company called Figure AI, the most advanced humanoid robot technology in Sunnyvale, San Francisco Bay Area. They are, of course, not going in the caregiver direction yet, but they can actually use it for the future in households. They don't want to have a camera on, but they have sensors in the humanoid robot, and they can scan if there's any emergency occurring. They can notify the caregiver, the hospital, or 911; they have that kind of function, and they can actually help people to walk if they have a little difficulty. I actually see robotics playing a lot of roles. Of course, we need to have a human touch to compensate for the kind of human presence. But as you mentioned, caregivers are tired. There are so many unnecessary chores they need to do, and then they constantly worry that their mom and dad fall in the bathroom. That's a huge problem from dehydration and a very, very common problem too. When you have these kinds of robots, they can be free themselves; they can go out, they can walk, but they can still monitor what's going on inside of a house. We really see that happening. It doesn't just need to be in humanoid form, but humanoid could be easier because you can go together. I will talk about a lot of sensors and a lot of the technology we can actually use to monitor this aging population and patients as well.

Henry Peck 20:28
Let's think about—oh, please go ahead.

Nicole J. Walker 20:30
I was just going to say, you make a really good point, and maybe it's something that I've thought more so recently. We talk a lot during the development process for a lot of these products about talking to clinicians and even talking to nurses, but the caregiver population is an untapped resource, and they see so much. I mean, they go into homes three times a day, seven days a week, and have a true perspective on what it is for a family to deal with some of these problems up close and personal. Even in my experience, I used our caregivers to help give me insights on where to find tricks and where to find resources because they had seen it so many times. So I would say that's another opportunity for entrepreneurs to really think about how to tap into that memory source, just given the large variety of it.

Henry Peck 21:18
I like the conversation around the future technologies that we could see in this space that would be valuable. Let's talk about the technology of the moment: AI. We'll tap into some of the expertise here. You see right now, you know, you talk about workforce shortages and labor issues. AI is being pitched as a really elegant solution in certain areas to augment human labor opportunities, like AI-assisted diagnostics all the way over to having an AI personalized caregiver that mimics your behavior for your parent. These are all ideas that are being floated. Is this realistic? Is this where we're going? What are we going to see with respect to AI and age tech, both for the younger population that's aging and for the already aging population that are facing some of the larger issues that come with that?

Soyoung Park 22:08
In terms of AI technology, of course, AI cannot depart from machine learning and big data. I should talk to the AI infrastructure session that we should go to prevention rather than reaction. With all the data we've built now, we can identify where the real root cause is, and with that data, we can actually start to build a complete reset in our drug development or set up your development. We actually set up the old infrastructure. There is one company, one of our portfolio companies, that is actually using MRML technology. They buy a liquid biopsy company, but they are able to find lung cancer from the blood four years earlier than standard care. Actually, even before the tumor forms, they can find the biomarker identified in the blood. They can monitor before onset starts. Also, another company, Snap the Car, is one of my favorite companies. They are actually using rTMS EEG technology, and they do cognitive electro-physio stimulation. Their dream is to slow down the onset of Alzheimer’s. Luckily, they made huge progress. Eventually, if you start early, like in your 40s, you may not have the onset of Alzheimer’s. So you can kind of get rid of Alzheimer’s in the future. Maybe there's too much optimism, but it makes sense. There's a lot of potential.

Henry Peck 24:06
I want to reframe the question slightly for you. When we hear— we heard Soyoung talk a little bit about the idea of shifting to prevention. It's no secret today that there's no money in prevention, right? Who gets paid on that? When you think about some of what we're seeing with big tech entering the space, right? You see Per Novo whole body scanning. You see Daniel Ek from Spotify just launched his whole body scanning. This system could not possibly support doing diagnostic testing on everyone from age 25 for the rest of their lives. How do we solve this care paradigm? You talked a little bit about value-based care in previous areas and some of the challenges and headwinds with adoption there. Take us through how we should be thinking about the care paradigms, the payment paradigms, and how we're going to shift that in order to get age tech to make it a reality for people when they need it.

Gal Noyman 25:00
Yeah, I think first and foremost, when we're talking about this age, you know, over 65 and focusing on the U.S. as our primary market, this is government. This is government-owned insurance, Medicare, that is growing. There is a fast-growing aging population that sits under Medicare, and they're incentivized for you to do better. One of the reasons why historically prevention wasn't a big thing was not only because of engagement but because when you're below 65 and you have private insurance and you switch it every two or three years, you don't have any sentiment to your carrier. Then it's not worth it for them to think about where you will be in terms of diabetes or Alzheimer’s in 20 years. They don't care; it's not on their charts and their costs, and that's the truth. When we're shifting to have many more people under Medicare, we understand that they are incentivized to take care and reduce these dramatic costs. The main question is not whether they want to, but can they? When we try to understand if they can, then we know that it also sits underneath the data because when we provide them with an accurate and full, comprehensive picture of these patients, wherever they are, then we will be able to improve their outcomes. But we must provide that complete data, whether it's well-being, clinical symptoms, or whatnot. Shifting to value-based care, I think, is becoming more and more of a reality. Then you just need to think, okay, when we're saying that, do we have enough tools, and do we connect this ecosystem well enough for it to be executed?

Nicole J. Walker 27:07
That is really, I believe, the cornerstone challenge within our U.S. healthcare system right now. This push and pull between the payers trying to drive towards more value-based populations under their coverage and the health systems trying to manage very narrow profit margins. I mean, most health systems in the U.S. are sub-5%. If that were a Fortune 100 company, there would be mad board uprisings within each of those corporations. But that's the reality of the economics of our care. If we are driving to a value-based system where you assign a total product of services at a certain cost for a patient, how do you get there? How do you decide the cost for someone who hasn't been diagnosed with anything until June when they were assigned a cost value in January? I don't think that, at least as a product developer, I thought through enough of that when thinking about the market access strategy and what the headwinds would probably be. This idea that we can get there is just how do we unlock that data and make it a toolset? The VA, I don't get paid by them, I think is a really good example because they are using their longitudinal data set and assigning a value for each of their patients and starting them early. They say, "We know that you've come to us with these symptoms at 45; you have a high probability of developing issues by the time you're 80. So let's start now. We're going to put you on a cohort of patients that we manage more aggressively." There's a whole thinking around it. Imagine if we did that with every health system, with every payer in our structure, but everyone sits in their own silo with their own P&L. I suppose those are much more challenging to do that, right? I think you can if there are data sets that you can tap into and really understand how much your population is really charging you and then build care packages around them under the value plan structure that is different from fee-for-service where you don't have that same incentive.

Gal Noyman 29:09
I have to add something to Nicole, if I may. I think it's important. It's connecting to the company we mentioned before with virtual-first primary care for Medicare Advantage. So the value-based, they have one physician tapping into a panel of thousands of patients. Then they have health promoters, nurses, and dietitians. So we have someone watching the patient all the time, but we don't let the physician do tasks that are using their time. That is one of the key elements to really being able to execute on these value-based care programs, which is okay, we know that 35% of healthcare is potentially automatable by AI. We know we're missing these people, but is everyone really practicing at the top of their license? For it to become a reality, we have to utilize all the different types of healthcare workers so we have a better picture of our patients, and then we'll see the result.

Henry Peck 30:23
Yeah, one subset of people that really want in on this space are the big tech companies. You can see what Apple is doing already, whether it's moving their hearing aids to clinical-grade hearing aids or the partnership they had with Biogen Digital Health, which when Biogen folded, that division ended. But it was a smartphone-based cognitive screening that they were looking at for Alzheimer's. They clearly are pursuing. You mentioned access to data sets. They've got them because they've got us all as consumers. Is the complexity that you were referencing around the system going to be too much for them to actually have an impact in this space, or is fresh consumer tech, from that perspective, what we need in order to bypass some of these systems and get technology into the hands of patients from those that understand how to get compelling technology into the hands of people and then work backward? Soyoung, we'll start with you.

Soyoung Park 31:16
Yeah. It's kind of a DTC sector. I'm not huge in the consumer sector, but DTC is a huge trend now. Before, we focused on payers. But think about that. Boomers, baby boomers, turn 65 by 2030—all of them. Do you guess the Medicare cost forecast? Just for Medicare, $260 billion. It's all tax money. Can our younger generation afford it? Maybe a little bit tough. Maybe AI will make money so they can afford it. But still, it's a huge economic burden. Big tech now, I see that this is a huge market. They probably acknowledge it. I met once the VP of Google Health a long time ago, and I asked, "What are you doing at Google as a physician?" He said, "Oh, I go out and collect data. I ask, 'Are you agree to share data with us?'" So they started that a long time ago, before the pandemic, of course. But I went to a small event, DeepMind at Palo Alto. They said, "Oh, we're going to have an imaging data set. We'll start collecting all the image data and providing it." Mind is part of Google. But Google recently released the news that they were going to collect all the voice data, and from the voice, they can understand if you are sick or not, what kind of disease you have. So those big tech companies are entering. The interesting thing is they have no idea what they are doing; they just collect data. But they already have a lot of data. They said they will not collect data, which means they will literally collect huge data. I like to see more startups. Of course, I think we need to understand what they are looking for and then provide very specific, very valuable data they cannot even get by themselves. I think it's a good thing, but at least big data and big tech companies' interest in this sector will provide a lot of devices. They will try a lot of them, and many will fail, and that's how they operate. They try and then fail. Okay, I move on to the next one. But because they fail, there's an opportunity for us experts who know this medical device, who know the data, and health IT. There's that opportunity we can have.

Henry Peck 34:12
Their participation certainly comes with a lot of capital and a lot of experimentation. That could be, as you said, impactful, but it also could create inroads or paths for more companies to do similar things with more targeted expertise.

Nicole J. Walker 34:28
I will say that, and maybe this is slightly contrarian to your view. When I was a medical device engineer, we thought of ourselves more along the consumer aspect because diabetes devices, oftentimes we'd have to market directly to the customer. So we ended up hiring in more people who had traditional consumer packaged goods talent, especially on the marketing side, to feed back into the design. Because that idea of having a strong idea or strong knowledge of customer delight is something that they bring to the table that I think we need more of, especially as we think about medtech within healthcare. But I think the clashing of those two worlds is actually a good thing because they have access to how consumers think about interacting with the widget, and they're on the phone and getting the hard questions all the time, whereas we're thinking in the back of our minds, "Well, how do you demonstrate a clinical trial, and how do we get that through the FDA?" If you can put those two brains together, or better yet, build up that brain through exposed assignments in a given corporation, I think what we did at Abbott with designing that sensor that went on to be the Libre continuous glucose monitoring sensor, which is now having a direct-to-consumer over-the-counter full push behind it, is just one example of what you can do if you step outside the box and say, "I don't want to think of myself as pure medtech. I want to think of myself as a consumer device that can provide clinical and wellness insights, and how would I change my to-do list on a given day to get there?" But I agree with you; I don't think that as a technologist, you just walk into a hospital and say, "Hey, I have this cool AI software for you. Let's go." That's not how it works unless you can really articulate the understanding of not only the need but the pain that they will need to go through for that adoption, which may be worth the pain. You're still talking about someone who's done something for the past 30 years and has a clinical kind of knowledge and thoughtfulness behind it that they just can't move from with a new addition.

Henry Peck 36:38
We'll wrap up on this question with some final thoughts. All of these things that we're talking about, presenting the opportunities, understanding the challenges, I think the kind of thing to bring it all together is how do we get more capital into this space, and how do we make some of these ideas a reality, advance the companies that you've already invested in, finance new companies across devices, and even outside in health tech and consumer biotech? How do we get more capital into age tech? Gal, we'll start with you and wrap up with final thoughts on that.

Gal Noyman 37:08
Yeah, I think one key player that age tech is important to specifically is pension funds. When we're thinking age tech, we need to think also of financial stress and not only physical stress. People are in the mindset of preparing for the next phase of their life, preparing for managing their health beforehand. Think also of long-term care insurance. I think one of the ways to get more players there is just identifying those players that have relatively low rates of engagement, don't know enough about their members, and care about it because they pay for it later on. Then really drive them into the innovation ecosystem.

Soyoung Park 37:57
Yeah, my thought is I really want to ask founders to find out what is your real special value. There are a lot of needs. Probably something is not really transformative, but some will be really beneficial for the patients or elderly people or even the caregivers. I want you to bring that special value to society, and also, at the same time, I want you to think about what is the biggest problem we are dealing with, and how can I make the biggest impact on this society? I'd like to ask you to think about that.

Nicole J. Walker 38:35
Definitely the pensions, but also a number of the associations. As you think through how this technology is being provided, whether it's something for Alzheimer's and the Alzheimer's Association or the dementia funds that have established themselves, each of these verticals that focus on a specific population, even women's health. I would argue that since most of the dollars within a household are usually distributed by the woman, and the mandates around healthcare are usually driven by the female styles, that women's health in this aspect of how you maintain mental health for women here is really, really important because it's not so much the waiting. A lot of times, it's here, and so you are dealing with an aging parent, and you're dealing with the care of your family and trying to think about yourself. So being able to tap into some of those associations, the Diabetes Association, as an entrepreneur, each of them has small funds but has more of a mission and a passion around finding solutions for their constituency. I think that is an opportunity that we don't tap into enough.

Henry Peck 39:35
Awesome. We are at time. Thank you so much for this panel. I hope that everyone in the audience found it valuable. Considering everyone here is going to age besides me, it will be good to understand the future of this space. For those companies out there who are interested in the age tech space, definitely talk to these three after the panel. Thank you so much.