Opening Keynote with Antoine Papiernik and Laura Francis | LSI Europe '25

Scott Pantel  0:00  
I don't know if I'm worthy of being on the stage. 

Laura Francis  0:07  
I know I'm a little intimidated after that.

Scott Pantel  0:10  
Henry, thanks for the sharing the vision of LSI and introducing what we're planned for the week. Thank you again, Stuart, for the history. And I want to welcome everybody that's here. Thank you for showing up on a Sunday evening, getting primed and ready for a week ahead of innovation and partnering, I couldn't think of two finer executives from our industry to share the stage with tonight. We're going to keep this casual a conversation. We're going to make this fluid, and I was going to do the introductions, but Stuart took that for me. So that's great. So why don't, before we get into the questions, why don't we start with Laura, why don't you share a bit about your journey and get us current? Because I know it's been an exciting year for si bone, and then we'll go to Antoine, yeah.

Laura Francis  0:52  
So thank you for the intro. And I'm Laura Francis. I'm the CEO of SI bone. We're an orthopedics company out of the United States. We are publicly traded on the NASDAQ. We'll do around $200 million in sales this year, and US dollars, I should say, and I'm very proud that we have hit profitability this year, which is a big deal for us. We're starting to generate cash flow. So I kind of look at us as a little bit of a tweener, where, when I think about LSI, I think about smaller companies, which I've gone on that whole journey. I've been with sibone for over 10 years at this point, started out as a private company. The company had around $40 million in sales when I started, and we're private, went through the IPO journey in the United States and to our present state, and we'll generate some cash flow this year as well. We're diversified in terms of our portfolio, and so it's been a fun year for us. It's an interesting point in time, for sure, but that gives you a little bit of a flavor, at least for for me and for us. Sai Bon

Scott Pantel  2:04  
Antoine, get us caught up. It's been an exciting year for sofinova. So give us the get us current, and then we'll, we'll get into how the two of you met each other. Yes.

Antoine Papiernik  2:12  
So Antoine Papiernik, I'm the managing partner and chairman of sofinova. So we are European based venture fund investing in life sciences across the board, including, of course, a good part in in Medtech. So I've been doing this job for, yeah, almost 30 years, or, in fact, 30 years, and I've been 28 of those at sofinova. So it's been, it's been a journey.

Scott Pantel  2:40  
And let's we had in our prep call, we had a great conversation, and we kind of went all over the place, and one of the themes that we came back to were this idea of relationships and tracing back things that have happened early in our career, and then realizing how that's impacting the current place where we're at. So share with the audience here, how the two of you met? I know that Laura had much better timing than you do did with this one, but the outcome was great. So share how you guys for were connected originally.

Antoine Papiernik  3:08  
Yeah, we met at the Board of Shockwave. So I know people have heard the story quite a few times. So we decided among ourselves that we said we're going to say that the S word not Shockwave, to make sure that people are you know, bear with us. Yeah, we met at the Board of Shockwave, but indeed, I was here longer, and therefore the journey was, was more ups and downs at the beginning, but Laura had a perfect timing coming in before the IPO and, you know, from there. So I think, you know, anybody should really think about Laura on their board, because the second that she comes in, this thing just flies like a rocket. So that's, that's the only explanation I can have.

Laura Francis  3:47  
Well, I thought all boards did that. I joined two months before shockwave went public, and it literally was a rocket ship of just hanging on the sales when I started. Were $12 million in sales at the time, and I think this year, they'll do over a billion dollars now with with J and J But kind of situation that you dream about? I for those of you that are in the audience, I would say that most of my career's experience has been more grit and perseverance. And so for those of you that feel like you're constantly knocking down walls, to me, that is the norm in business, but shockwave what was this wonderful situation where it was really a group of incredible people, each of us understanding what our roles were and coming together in order to create the success that we saw, and so getting to work with Antoine on the board was a little intimidating. I, as I said, I came in two months before the company went public. The people that were on the board had known one another for a very long time, and I was a little bit of an outsider. And. And at the time, the board was looking for an audit committee chair, and knew that they wanted to actually take the company public. Needed somebody that was a financial expert, according to the terms of the SEC in the United States, and so they were looking for somebody that was the sitting at the time, I was a CFO. I've been, I've been the CEO for around five years. So five years as the CFO of the company, they wanted a sitting CFO, somebody who had taken a company public, preferably in the Bay Area in California.

Antoine Papiernik  5:35  
I think the main reason is that I was the audit chair, and I had no idea what I was doing as the company was going public. So, you know, that was a good move.

Laura Francis  5:45  
I think they were also looking for a woman. And so it got down to, I joke around and say they literally got to a list of one person for the role, and it was me, and I was contacted by numerous people. So Colin Cahill, who was on the board at the time, I actually think was the person that recommended me for the board. But I got a call from Morgan Stanley, from David horn at the time, who's now the CFO of a company called seer. And I got a call from a woman, Lin Lewis, who runs an IR firm called Gilmartin. And they all kind of said, hey, they want to talk to you about this role. And the way that it really worked for me was I met with Doug godshol, the CEO of the company. I did not know him. I had met with the CFO Dan Puckett previously, but we didn't know one another well. And Doug and I met at a Starbucks and hit it off with one another. And at the end, I said, Well, I would be interested in in joining the board. And he looked at me, and he said, you know, what's the audit committee chair role, right? Like, who, in their right mind, would want to be the audit committee chair? And I said, that's what I do, that that's what I'm good at, that's that, that that's exactly what I would like to do. And so that's how it all started. But joining, as I said, was a little bit intimidating, right? A group of people that knew one another, and so it was about building relationships, building relationships with Antoine and the other board members, and then building relationships with the executives of the company too. And I didn't, I wasn't, I mean, I say I was intimidated. I really wasn't, and the reason was because I really knew what I knew, and I really leaned into what I knew and and that's what, that's what worked, at least from my perspective, although, when they were talking about cardiovascular stuff, I was just like, you know, I don't know, but I can talk a lot about medical device in the industry and up to the minute, and then the financial side as well.

Scott Pantel  7:55  
Antoine, we know she was being polite when she said she was intimidated. Yeah, no, not at all,

Antoine Papiernik  7:59  
but she shut me up. So, so quickly, it's like alt one. He's only one you're talking about, which was right? So, you know that was, it was good.

Scott Pantel  8:07  
So it was a rocket ship when you came on. So it's, it would be, there's got to be some, some challenges that that the organization had, though, when you were together. Maybe there weren't, was it a straight rocket ship? Were there anything, any battle, any battles that you guys have,

Antoine Papiernik  8:19  
no never, that's the thing. Well, you know, this company, of course, ultimately transacted. So there was lots of discussions and questions, and along the way, you know some of the rumors that you know. But I think back to your your point about relationships, because, you know, Lora knows what she's what she knows, but, but it's, you know, how we construct our companies is through those relationships. Some of them come through pure serendipity. You bump into someone, or your your your your network opens up. I mean, for me, you know, if I look back, my first Medtech investment is always 30 years ago in 95 or 96 and I'm still working with, you know, the gentleman that I invested on, he became a venture partner. We invested in all sorts of companies, and we had ups and downs, and we lost money in some companies. And I think, and I'm sure it's true for most people in the in the audience, you know, the they are great companies, they are great technologies. But ultimately, what leads you as a person, certainly, that's, that's, that's true for me, is, is the relationship that you form. So this gentleman, 30 years ago was this company Summit Tech, which was a cardiac monitoring company we sold to what is now Teleflex. But then, you know, then you you meet people through that person and you invest in, you know, man, oh, ire from, from Ricoh. Came from his network, and then from that, we set up med tech accelerator. MD, start. So if you look back, you know, in all the stories that led me to say, Shockwave, okay, I bumped into Jay Watkins, I don't know. Jay is in the audience, but at a conference in Europe. And, you know, I knew him from from his garden days, and and Jay is the one who introduced me to Todd Brinton now at Edwards. So you know this, I think for me, it's, it's super interesting to look back at the people who made difference in your lives, positive difference in your life. And I, I'm, you know, focusing on trying to stick to these people. You know, they have people who make negative impact in your life, and those people, and I'm sure it's just the truth for everyone you're trying to avoid that. That group, you make mistakes, you know, you you put your trust in in some people. That doesn't work out, but that's that's okay. That's part of life. Focus on the people who made difference. Well, you know, Doug Gotcha. You may have seen that we just led $100 million financing of Galvanize, company has been going on for for, for some time, but Doug has taken the the leadership of the company, and, you know, for some reason, everyone wanted to give money to him. So, you know, that's, that's how it goes.

Scott Pantel  11:13  
Okay, let's, um, that's that. That takes me to the next question that I had, and maybe we'll start with Antoine, and then I want to get to Laura here to get back to this, this idea about having what it takes and the grit to actually operate a company. So Antoine, if you're looking we have this turnout this week of all these innovators. You know, many of them, many familiar faces, but there are new innovators. There are new leadership that are coming through the ranks that we want to support. What are some of the signals you're looking at hundreds of companies. What are some of the signals you're looking for, from a leadership team perspective, company structure perspective, some of the positive signals that you're looking for. And then after you give us that take, I want to know from Laura what it takes to execute and tell us a little bit about the grit here. So signals you look for,

Antoine Papiernik  12:00  
well, you know, entrepreneurs cannot take no for an answer. That's the thing you know right now, the environment, the financing environment, is super tough, so you need to find all sorts of ways to fund your companies. And so I mean the grid, the determination, the desire. If you think your product is good, you need to stick to it. And, you know, right now, non traditional financing is, is the norm, whatever it is, basically. And many of our companies went through, you know, droughts and had to find some ways to fund themselves. So that's, you know, a CEO knows how to just not take off an answer that's the first that's the first characteristic. And yet the funny thing, it could be sound the opposite, but you need to know how to listen and to surround yourself with people who can actually bring you know value to your to your company. So you're bored, for sure, but consultants and and people around you that so being able to shift in order to to survive, you need to be able to listen to people, take note of what you know, what what you know, outside advisors tell you, and be able to pivot to make the company successful. I mean, every company, of our, of our portfolio, at some point goes through that. You think you're going this way. And in fact, you know you need to pivot and do something else and and you know, through the outside of the last five years with with Laura, you know, the early years of shock waves did demonstrate this. You know you have to be able to to pivot in another direction

Scott Pantel  13:43  
from the operators lens.

Laura Francis  13:45  
Yeah, being an operator is I love it. So I started out my career in public accounting, and then I went to business school at Stanford, and I worked at McKinsey for five years. So I was outside of businesses for the first 10 years of my career, and I knew at that point that I wanted to go inside of a company. By the way, I thought I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I thought I wanted to be a founder of a company. And what I really learned I was good at is I am a commercial operator. And I read an interview that Doug gave not that long ago, and he literally says the same thing, that once a company is commercial, I think there's nothing more exciting than taking that company to the next level. Right as I said, with that cybone going from 40 million in sales to 200 million in sales, and now we're putting together our business plan for the next five years. How do we get to half a billion US dollars in sales? And to me, it's just something new. Every single day you walk in and you go, what? What do I need to do today? What is the most. Most important thing that I need to do today, and so I'm here with you guys today because I think this is incredibly important, and participating in the LSI conference, and we're at this stage. I call us a tweener stage, right? I think a lot of people that are that are in the audience, you're either a small company, venture backed company, or you're a much larger company, and you're looking at technologies. We're just at that cusp of we're starting to look at distribution arrangements, licensing, joint ventures, all of those sorts of things other than organic growth. But it really is all about constantly looking at what you need to do in order to drive the business forward. And what worked yesterday may not necessarily work today. One of the favorite conversations I've ever had is with one of the founders of Shockwave John Adams. And I met with him. I think Doug was literally talking to J and J about the acquisition at the time that I went to this national sales meeting. I happened to be at an investor conference in Miami, and I went to his national sales meeting, sat down with John. And when I sat down with John, he said, We never thought about coronary as an opportunity for shock wave. We only thought about peripheral for the business. And this was a epiphany to me. I had been on the board for five and a half years, and he was telling me something I didn't know. But what really built that business was the coronary business, and this was something that the founder didn't even really think about. So I think, as an operator and somebody

Antoine Papiernik  16:42  
that, by the way, neither did I, you know. So it was not in my thesis. I thought this was going to be tiny business. That's why,

Laura Francis  16:49  
who was it that really thought about it? Because the clinical data was there.

Antoine Papiernik  16:53  
No, I mean this, this is the thing about serendipity, and the fact that you need to pivot, is that I went in there for a reason that was completely different than what ended up being the the massive win. So I think that's the thing for me, is you need to look at you as long as the people are the right one, you know, if they tell you, Well, we were going in that direction. But in fact, the real value is there. You have to say, okay, you know. So follow the people rather than follow the technology. Is, is I think the right, the right theme, and I think this is what happened. Of course, they develop clinical, I mean, the clinical data, but because they thought, Ah, I think this is we should go there, yeah. And I think that.

Laura Francis  17:36  
And I do, I do think that's about the team I, I, I talk with different investors that haven't taken a look at us in a while. I talk to larger companies on a fairly regular basis, and the comment that they'll make to me fairly regularly is, wow, how do you guys keep growing? How did you get profitable? I never thought you could get there. And to me, it's about the team that's there and figuring out how to continue to drive the growth of the business and and the right team can take a company places that a lot of people wouldn't necessarily anticipate.

Scott Pantel  18:17  
Let's, uh, that's terrific. Let's shift gears a little bit, because even with the right teams, the market can be can create challenges that we can overcome. So a couple years ago, when you were with us, Antoine, we asked that the question that has to be asked is, how's the market should we be excited? What are the watch outs? Maybe you could give us a your perspective on the health of the market today.

Antoine Papiernik  18:39  
Well, look, it's all relative and the optimist type. And I think there are plenty of opportunities. You know, clearly, the markets are not doing great, but Medtech within this is actually sort of a bubble of activity. You know, there's been more IPOs on the Medtech side and has been on the on the biotech side. So if you look at healthcare in general, Medtech is actually doing super well, certainly if you look back the for the previous five years. So I look at this, I concentrate on this. And the question is not, how is the big market is? Is your product something that the market needs, that the physicians want, that the patients need in the end? And if that's the case, honestly, I'm super positive that that's that's something that is backable with, with venture dollars. So the market is difficult for the venture funds to raise money. That's the reality. But it's been the case for a number of years. You know, we managed to raise large sums of money over the last 1218, months, over a billion euro. So it's doable. You have to talking about great I'm sorry, not just the entrepreneurs need great investors right now. Need to not take no for an answer to get money in in the new funds. But it's doable. Many of our colleagues have also raised a. Large sums of money. And I think that's just, is a signal that, I mean, it's natural. People know this. They say this. You know, buy low, sell high. It's true for the environment in which we are. You know, when things are very low, valuations are low. Well, this is an opportunity you need to be you need to see this opportunity. You need to, want to to get in there. But I, you know, we managed to tell our investors, look, this is a perfect moment to invest. You know, there's one thing that doesn't disappear is, you know, if you have lung cancer, you've got chronic bronchitis, you've got, you know, spine issues, you know, this is not going to go and if you bring the next innovation, then that market is here today. So you know that, you know, but that's me as the optimist. Probably why you like you know me on panels, because I think this is a terrific industry, and I think it's a terrific moment to invest.

Scott Pantel  20:54  
Thank you, Laura, your view on the market.

Laura Francis  20:58  
I mean, if you're a contrarian, there is no better time to invest in the medical device industry, right? If you look at the valuations, I have to look at my stock every single day, and it's not trading where it should trade. Especially we're growing, on average, over 20% every single year. As I said, profitable, starting to generate cash flow, and you know, the valuations are quite a bit lower than what historical averages are, and most of them are at historical lows. But I don't need to raise capital any longer. So we own our own destiny. I don't worry about it. The main thing that I focus on is just making sure that my team is motivated, that, you know, they look at the stock price and say, Why are we trading there? Is there a problem? Is there something we don't know? Is there something we don't understand? And it's more saying you guys are doing great. Look at all of these things that you can control, and focus on the things that you can control, and the stock price, quite frankly, and especially the macro environment isn't one of them. I did have a discussion not that long ago with David Lewis, who's on the Galvanize board. He was a top Wall Street analyst, and he made a comment to me that I thought was really insightful. He said, if you look at the US Russell 2000 which my company is a part of, Nvidia alone, is worth 70% of the Russell 2000 right now, right? So what it's telling you is, for investors, it's easier to just put money into Nvidia than into small, mid cap stocks right now, but that will change and and in the meantime, what we're doing is so meaningful, right? If you, if you want to get up every single day and say, there's meaning to what I'm doing, you know, we're Pat we're helping patients. We're helping physicians that are that are providing health care to people, those are the things that have to really motivate you, and the rest is just noise.

Antoine Papiernik  23:05  
And you know, at the end of the day, it's about, you know, surrogate markers of success here in this country, you know, organox got sold to rumo for 1.5 billion, you know. Just concentrate on this. You know, you look at this, it means it's possible every investor that was in organoxx, I said no to organoxx, by the way, obviously a mistake. But the investors that were in organoxx, they made a fortune by, you know, having this company sold to Truma. Look at the eastersonix, not so long ago, a few few weeks or months ago, you know, a huge refinancing in the in the billions. Okay, you could say, well, this only happens to such a few people, but that's you know, that's not true. You know, if you can make it happen, you bring the right investors around the table, you develop your company. You listen to what your board or your or your advisors are saying. Well, at the end of the day, your products makes it you know, Tarun buys, buys your company for 1.5 billion. That's, I think that's a self fulfilling prophecy, the way, if you believe in it, and you do everything, and you change your company along the way, organoxe has been going on for a long time. They didn't stop like they ended, right? So that's the story. You know, it's a you, you gradually, you know, you take the good things, you let the bad things go, you concentrate, you bring the right management, and ultimately, you make a success. Nobody thought Eso Sonics would do this huge, ginormous refinancing at 2.5 it's like everyone saying, Oh, my God, what happened there? And wow, maybe there'd be another one, you know. And who are the investors who invest in this company there? For many of them, they are newcomers into our field. That's a good thing.

Scott Pantel  24:44  
Do you think that I'm off here? Do you think that is these newcomers coming into the industry? Something that we track regularly? We watch our attendee list for the events, and when we see the conspicuous outsiders come into the event, we view that as very, very positive. So you see this histasonics thing as a to be. Beginning of something potentially bigger. What is it? What is it? What could it mean for our industry?

Antoine Papiernik  25:04  
No, absolutely. I mean, you mentioned Nvidia, Nvidia has basically determined that healthcare was going to be a huge area for them, right? So they are investing not just money, but also relationships. They are helping companies. One of our companies, mood surgical, has this relationship with Nvidia. In fact, one of our funds, digital medicines funds, has a relationship with Nvidia where we can provide compute to our own companies in the field. So you know, the newcomers, if you have Nvidia as a friend, you know, I mean, the sky is the limit, and it's the same with many of the tech players. So right now, if you think about the importance of AI in in med tech, you know, so what they call physical AI, many of the products we do will ultimately integrate some AI. So if you, if you do this, then ultimately, you know, the tech companies are going to be wanting to be, to be close to us.

Scott Pantel  25:59  
It's what we've been talking we've been referring to is the tech med revolution. Is this thing that we've been talking about the bit, very interesting. So a couple final questions here that I'd like to go through here five to 10 years. What are we going to be talking about in a meeting like this? What we'll start with, Laura, what's, what are some technology areas, business model structures that you're really excited about today, that you think we'll be talking about 10 years from now. Just give us your vision for what excites here.

Laura Francis  26:29  
I mean, we just talked about artificial intelligence. I think that's going to impact healthcare in a profound way. We look at it more from a imaging perspective, given that I'm in an orthopedics business, and I'm in a lot with a lot of orthopedics procedures, you do have issues with the procedures not going according to plan, and how do you make sure that you do pre operative planning in a way that you're addressing the need of the particular patient. So I think pre op planning can help. How do you identify the point of pain as well? Right, with a lot of patients, pain is a is a very unique perspective, and it's multi faceted. And you know, are there tools that we can use in order to really pinpoint where that pain is actually located and address the pain specifically. So I do think a lot of these tools are going to help us to do a better job. We're obviously seeing a lot of robotics that are out there at this point. Right now, it seems like every company wants to create their own ecosystem. Sorry if I'm offending any of the companies that are creating their own ecosystems right now, there's a lot of closed systems, and at least in orthopedics, the money is made by pulling through the hardware, as opposed to from the robotics itself. But can we find a way to open up those platforms and bring together the technologies that best meet the needs of the patient as well. So those are some of the things I think about.

Scott Pantel  28:04  
What's exciting you Antoine,

Antoine Papiernik  28:07  
you know, the number of new fields that I encounter every day. So I told you I invested in Galvanize because I think, well, oncology has been mostly either surgical or chemotherapy or basically medical oncology. So I think there's a huge we talked about Easter Sonics. We're not in East orsonics, but I think there's a huge medical device implication in the in the oncology world. I mean, I'm already in some companies because, I mean, RefleXion medical in radiotherapy, but Galvanize, for me is really if you can treat, I mean, we've all have people around us who've had cancer, and you know, the medical oncology is works, but it's super, super tough. And I think if you're able to really help those patients and treat those tumors, and in particular for metastatic patients, I think this is enormous. This is the bigger area of healthcare, even bigger than than cardiovascular according to me. So oncology is one area that I, I think will will be revolutionized in the next five to 10 years. For sure. Of course, you know, not talking about AI, but you know, if you think about a field that's going to be a super exciting field going forward,

Scott Pantel  29:27  
it's amazing. Okay, I have a I have a final relationships question, but I think we would be missing a huge opportunity if we didn't let Laura maybe embarrass her daughter, or vice versa. I don't know how it goes, but maybe you could share with us how you your first trip outside the US. I don't know this

Laura Francis  29:46  
Midwest, yeah, I shared that slice Scott, so the first time I ever got onto a plane. So I'm from the middle of the country, in the United States. I was born in the city of Chicago, and I grew up in a very. Mall town in the middle of Wisconsin, I feel like I sound like a character in a movie or something like that, or a politician, but it's true. So the first time I ever got onto a plane, I came to London. I was in a film and theater group, and I think the exchange rate at the time, it was cheaper to come to London than to go to New York. So I came here, and I would say that it changed my life. It just opened up the world to me and helped me to think about who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do, and that the world is so much bigger than where I started. I've gone back to reunions at my high school, and I would say over half of the people that I went to school with have never left that small town right? That's very common in the US and probably other places in the world too, but, but if you had told me at that time, I was 16 years old, at the time that I came out here, that I would be at the Grosvenor hotel with all of the history that, that we just heard about, I think I peaked so with with a group of people from all over the world. This, this would have, this would have been it. And sharing it with my daughter, Katie, who is in the audience as well as is, is an added bonus for me.

Scott Pantel  31:15  
Hi, Katie, that's a that's such a cool story. Thanks for sharing that. And Katie, thanks for being for being here to support your mom. She knew. We know she gets intimidated and stuff. So we saw about half the audience stand up for first timers here at the event, we've been talking about the power of relationships tracing things back. Antoine, I love the story you share about Jay and how it had an impact on you then and today, and the deals you guys have done, any any advice or final takeaways for this group of people that are here for the week to partner and innovate, especially the folks that maybe it's their first time, and they're not sure how to really lean into this is it simply lean in what? What's your what's your takeaway from the people that are here. How do you maximize a week like this?

Antoine Papiernik  32:08  
Yeah, I think I mentioned that to you is that I met Jay first time at a conference in Europe in Lausanne, 20 odd years ago, and that led me to he's the guy who introduced me to Todd brynton, the founder of Shockwave, and we made so many deals together along the way. So I think, you know, technologies is one thing, relationship is another. If you are an entrepreneur and you are pitching your company to corporates, you know that that first meeting may not end up necessarily in, you know, a partnership or an acquisition, but, you know, just being honest about that relationship and keeping up with those people and making sure you you nurture those relationship again, sounds cheesy or so obvious, but that's, that's the key to, certainly my career, is having established relationship with people outside of a, you know, wanting them to do something for me, and that relationship, having been built is is led me to work with these people in one way or the other, in the in the in the future. So just meet as many people as possible, make the relationship Just be true to yourself. Don't necessarily sell, you know, because we're here to sell, but at the same time, you know, we're human beings. I think making those connections outside of a of a sales exercise is, in my view, much more fruitful. You know, this is who I am, and this is what I do, you know, if and then try and connect those dots, if the dots don't connect immediately. Maybe they'll connect a year from now, two years from now, at the LSI. So you know that's and you know this, I am certain that there are deals that are going to happen tonight, first time, relationships. People are going to meet at the table. Serendipity, they don't know each other, and in five years from now, you're either they co founded a company together, or one bought the other. And that's, I think, I am certain that this is going to happen. It's because the statistics just demonstrate that. So I think the power of a meeting like this is just, that is, you know, talk to the people, what is it that you're doing, and then ultimately you don't know what's, you know, the what's possible. I think, I think sky's the limit.

Scott Pantel  34:21  
That's amazing. Thank you, Laura. I know you're taking a couple meetings tomorrow before you head out. I know Antoine's got a feeling his calendar, so I've been spying on both of you, but your advice

Laura Francis  34:30  
just just a couple. I do think, I mean, you obviously have to have a good company. You have to have a good opportunity. Although, as Antoine was saying earlier, a lot of companies pivot quite a bit in order to get to where they end up. And what you're going to see is that a lot of companies, they bring the same people into those companies numerous times, and it's not an accident. So for example, I'm on the board of a company called broker. Corporation, which is an instrumentation and diagnostics company, tools and diagnostics company. I was their CFO 20 years ago. And so building relationships, maintaining relationships, is absolutely critical, because at the end of the day, when people think about being in a board room with somebody, or investing in the company or working with them in some way, shape or form, we are human beings, right? And we think about money, right? We're all thinking about money in this room. But the reality is, our time is as or more important and and we want to be surrounded by people that we really enjoy solving problems with you know, I was saying that, you know, all I saw was a rocket ship. And you said, That's not possible. There had to be problems along the way. And the reality was that there were a lot of problems along the way, but I loved solving them with these people and and so build the relationships with people and take them seriously. And even if you decline a meeting, make sure to connect with the person anyway and say hello and thank them. And you know, just build those relationships. You never know where they're going to come from.

Scott Pantel  36:17  
That's amazing. All right. With that, I want to thank Antoine and Laura for joining us today, sharing your experience and your insights, and I hope that everybody has a successful week and you get the outcomes that you came for. Thank you very much for being here.