How to Engage Clinicians as Investors in Medtech Ventures | LSI Asia '25

Gavin Leonard  0:05  
So good morning, everybody. I'm Gavin from Medtech syndicates, and today we're going to be talking about one of the most important topics in Medtech, and that's, how do we get more clinicians interested in investment? So Medtech syndicates is a funding platform for early stage companies to interact with clinicians and convince them that their offering is clinically worthwhile and useful to not just the clinical environment but all hospital settings. So I'll let everybody on the panel introduce themselves, and we'll kick it off.

Jeremy Teoh  0:42  
So I'm Jeremy Teoh. I'm associate professor of Hong Kong, but, you know, researcher to begin with. But also started doing a lot of r, d stuff, pro types, German products, trials. So also got in touch with a lot the technology company, so that's really together, and hopefully get some of my share, some experience to all of you today.

Wayne Huang  1:03  
All right, so my name is Wayne Huang. I'm the general surgeon in Taiwan. So I also are part of the family own hospital group in Taiwan, the largest one, and we, and part of my interesting job is managing a surgical training center called eric ed, which is in Taiwan and is currently one of the largest surgical training centers in Asia. And so through this work, I'm able to get in touch with venture funds, entrepreneurs and startup companies, the big metech companies and and really trying to navigate this as a surgeon. Yeah, nice to talk to you.

Jeyla Sadikova  1:44  
Hi, Jeyla Sadikova, one of the co founders at illumicel Ai. Background, X McKenzie. This is my second startup, first one, being in telehealth alongside my prison co founder. And very excited to talk to you about this.

Michel Bielecki  2:00  
Yeah, and hi as well. My name is Michel Bielecki. I'm a physician by training, and one of the co founders and CEO of illumisella, ai and happeion on panel. Thank you.

Gavin Leonard  2:10  
So we're really lucky today. We have two clinicians who are also investors in startups. And Jeremy is actually an investor in illumisellai. And illumisellai was one of the first companies that Medtech syndicates actually funded. So we're going to talk a little bit illumise AI, but also investment in general. So one question I'd like to ask all of you is, where do you see the gaps in terms of traditional funding for VC funding and clinicians investing in medical devices. So how about we start with you, Jeremy,

Jeremy Teoh  2:48  
I guess for really early phase startup companies, it's always tough, because you pretty much have an idea and then whether it works or not, whether the potential investors see the opportunity. And I feel that especially important in this session is that clinicians, generally, they have a much more in depth knowledge on this, on their own specialty, and they probably would have a better idea whether it works or not, whether, when it realizes that a product where they can sell. So I think, you know, in med Syndicate is really great as well, because you get to involve many clinicians to gather the advice, and also can potentially become investors as well if they see an opportunity. So that's my comment, yeah.

Wayne Huang  3:36  
Would you argue that way? Yeah, certainly. I think, especially I think in Taiwan, there's not a culture of physician investing in startups. And that's a little bit what I'm trying to educate the physician in Taiwan, that there's this possibility. So the traditional VCs in Taiwan, there are less risk takers then. So they typically, you know, obviously Taiwan has a big semiconductor industry, so that's where all the money is going. So if they're investing into biotech or med tech, they're usually late stage investors. They send together with other investors. So we're trying to educate a group of physicians in Taiwan and really get to know the ecosystem and learn the the risk involved. And so, if that so we are seeing a group of people who are actually doing that, and and those are usually very passionate, you know, they're very dedicated. They're willing to go the long way with the company from the very beginning. So I think it's really important to have this kind of support for startups.

Jeyla Sadikova  4:55  
I think for us as a startup, sometimes investments can feel very transaction. Know, so they invest, and kind of investors want some updates, but they're not really tied to your mission. And I think the difference that we saw having clinicians on board as investors was we actually felt like we're in a mission together. They really understand, actually better understand, what is needed in the clinical workflow. What the gaps are from perspective of, how are we changing the standard of care? How we're making ignitions, decision making better? How are we making patients journeys better? So I think from that point of view, it feels like you also have a partner on board, and not just somebody who funds you, I

Gavin Leonard  5:42  
think that's a great point. Yeah, how about yourself?

Michel Bielecki  5:45  
I think Medtech is extremely difficult because it takes a very long time until we have revenue. And often, many investors are a bit hesitant to buy in because it just takes so much time until they have a return. And I think that physicians see the vision and have the patience and having their buy in, as you know, future clients as well, supports that mission very much. So

Gavin Leonard  6:14  
yeah, and you are also an MD as well. So you are a doctor as well. So how does your viewpoint change your startup itself. So when you were doing the startup, what kind of made you want to do? Li, specifically, yeah,

Michel Bielecki  6:30  
that's a good question. I think that I'm in Medtech because I want to change healthcare. I think we are one of the most under digitalized industries in the world, despite technological advances. And for me, that also means that, especially in Europe, there's a certain stigma about not being working clinically. So I do feel that scrutiny from fellow residents, saying, why don't you work clinically anymore? What are you doing? Right? And to me, it's approaching medicine, not just on a physician to patient basis, but on a system basis. And that's something I'm passionate about,

Gavin Leonard  7:14  
very good. So when illumise AI came to Medtech syndicates, we spent a long time discussing things, but it was really interesting when we posted illumisellai For the first time. About two hours afterwards, I had a phone call with Jeremy, and he was really interested in not just illumise AI, but the team everything about it. So can you talk a little bit about what beyond the pitch deck attracted you to illumise.

Jeremy Teoh  7:46  
So, you know, I help evaluate a lot of new technology companies, and I think the most important thing is really creating clinical value. As a clinician, what it works? And in the context of Siemens analysis, the center of care, which is manual counting, which I still cannot believe, is still, you know, the current set of care. And I believe that having a good hardware coupled with AI is without a doubt, that you can really replace manual counting as a gold standard. Secondly, is really the business model. So basically, all these laptops are being centralized the laboratory. And obviously there's unmet need, because you have so many patients requiring these tests, and there's a limited number of laboratories, and if you have a mobile, kind of compact device, small device, which you can place in the clinic, and then you can have a point of care testing. So patients are happy. The clinics are happy as well, because they don't have to send to the lab. They can basically do it themselves. So if you have a model that can work, everybody is happy. So generally it will go smoother. But of course, there is something more than that as well beyond, you know, just semen analysis and other potential diseases in terms of diagnostic as well. But I think most important to me would be the founders. So if they have time, they can talk about it. They previously company during the covid era, and I have worked with companies during that time period, and there's always like a battlefield, you know, every company is like competing crazy in order to become the first company to to launch covid related products, and they and I think it was, it went very well. I'm impressed, because you have a deal with the the regulator, authority for the approval processes, the lab, you have the accredited etc. These are hard work. So one of a product, you have a business model, your founders, young, energetic people who has proven to be resilient. I think this would be the cornerstone of having a successful company.

Gavin Leonard  9:53  
So Jay, LA and Michel, you've had advisors before, who are clinicians. How does it do? For when the clinician is not just an advisor, but is on the cap table, and they're actually invested in the company. How does that differ?

Jeyla Sadikova  10:10  
I think, for us, specifically in the in case of Jeremy, we do feel like it's as I mentioned before, it's not just investment and it's not just occasional advice, but it's also about being a team and working on something together and being so committed to doing this and promoting this and getting this done to the highest possible standard, and not just as well I gave you advice, so just use that advice as as you want. So with Jeremy, it felt like it feels like we're promoting the standard of care together. We're working together almost operationally and not just strategically. So I think that made the most difference to me, at least,

Michel Bielecki  11:00  
yeah, I think it boils down to skin in the game. With many investors, we're just another portfolio company, and sometimes it's win, sometimes it's a lose. I think we really feel that the clinicians who have invested are actively helping us to push things forward, and that is very rare.

Jeremy Teoh  11:21  
I just want to add, if you are, you know, for starters, in particular, because it's still an early phase, and, you know, fundraising is difficult, so you need to compete right in terms of time and having somebody who has, really, you know, have an economic expertise, but also who has gone through the whole pathway from the initial prototype, German product running first in human trials, approval, etc, etc, at least you have, you know, you have real life experience in doing that. It's not that we want to influence them in any way, but showing them. You know, these are the possible steps. Think about it, whether you can push things forward in a very fast and also cost effective manner. So that is also what you know, we hope as a clinician, can provide them with

Gavin Leonard  12:08  
excellent So Wayne, from your standpoint, you sit on traditional VC, but you also an investor as well. What do you think makes a good clinician? Investor?

Wayne Huang  12:18  
Yeah, sorry, I'd mentioned in my introduction that I also work at the as a general partner and with be ventures, which is a talent based venture for fund that invested in about 3030, company, some companies now from across not just Asia, but also US Europe. So I think a good clinician investor, you have to be careful when an investment clinician wants to invest in you and starts to give you advice that maybe otherwise is not that well thought of, or if the clinician doesn't understand really, not just the clinical part, but also the business part of the startup journey. So they may tell you all to do this trial and that trial and that kind of because I think if the clinician only focuses in clinical part or a small segment of a clinical workflow, that may sometimes Disrupt. So I think, you know, the resources are very limited for a startup company. You have to really prioritize and to see so we so one of my portfolio company, you know, it's a 3d Vision platform from software technology. And so with this technology, we could, we can basically apply it to every specialty that needs a vision. So we're really confused what specialty to target, and so now, after a couple of years and wasted money and time, we finally narrow it down to one specialty, and now has really published high impact value journal in a randomized trial this year, and then they would start attract more and more. So you had to really, kind of, not just you find the right investor with the clinical background and who understands that the company needs to survive, and not just to give him height some some research project. Yeah,

Gavin Leonard  14:22  
yeah. I think that's that's really important for sure. So guys, there's a lot of myths and things that people say about having clinicians involved in companies. What are some of the myths that you kind of want to debunk about having investors that are clinicians on your cap table.

Jeyla Sadikova  14:45  
I think one of the most common ones is, oh, clinicians only care about data, or clinicians only care about, as you said, research projects. And, yeah, it has nothing to do with business, business, and they just want to promote science and. Yeah, and I think it was a very pleasant surprise that clinicians that we have who have invested in the Luma cell AI, they were actually very interested in how we're going to commercialize it, and more more so they are actually familiar with the pains of overcoming the commercial barrier. They know what reimbursement is about. They know that there's also barriers in the within the clinical systems, something that we don't see as founders, but something that they're very, very familiar with. And the biggest input was not just about, you know, clinical data or good quality of research, but it was also about like, the insight into the business of healthcare that I found very important to how we build illumcel AI's commercial planning.

Michel Bielecki  15:54  
I think, as a clinician, you have very little touch points with innovation throughout your education. It's not really part of any curriculum at university or even residency. And I think it was a very pleasant surprise to see that there are physicians who are actively trying to advance the field, and I think more so in the United States than in Europe, even though Switzerland is the number one innovation hub in the world, essentially, especially when it comes to AI, we have very little touch points with actually advancing the field. And it's different in United States, the mentality is different, the training is different. And I really like that.

Gavin Leonard  16:37  
So when a company works with Medtech syndicates, one of the most important things that we have to do is the elevator pitch. So the two minute video, and you guys nailed it. Can you talk a little bit about the process of what you went through and how you decided to put your your video together?

Jeyla Sadikova  16:57  
I love that question, because, you know, as a startup, we apply to so many different things like and usually the device is from accelerators or whatever the firms are applying with is take the worst video possible in your kitchen at 3am and it has to be the least professional thing, because that's how we know that you're a committed founder. You don't have time to make a video. And what I loved is that when we started talking to you, Gavin, about how we promote illumicel ai on the Medtech syndicates platform, you actually said, No, the video has to be excellent. The video has to be professional. And I think it was just like a green light for us to be like, Okay, we have to think like a big company, and not just as a startup, doing something super quick. So the process of that was actually quite straightforward. So watching a lot of videos from large corporations, you know, like the background professional music. And the backdrop of this is the building where they are. This is what they're talking about. So a lot of structure came from those professional videos of big healthcare corporates. And then with like, we tried to infuse it with some fun to make sure that there's character as well in the video. It's professional, yet illumise AI is a fun team. So we talked and talked about our technology, our vision and everything, and at the end we said, let's talk sperm. And I think that's the that's something that stuck with people, and that's why I think it's important to keep your character as founders, as a company, to signal to people what you're about and not just what your technology is about.

Gavin Leonard  18:51  
Yeah, I agree that tagline is something that everybody still talks about. It's it's great. So as clinicians, you're bombarded with information all the time. Everybody's trying to get some time with you. How do you think founders can cut through the noise and actually talk to clinicians in a way that they're going to say, Okay, I'll have a look at this a little bit more depth.

Jeremy Teoh  19:17  
Well, the first count and counter usually would be through the deck that I showed, and I think they prepared it so well, in the sense that they are able to visualize the model quickly, they are able to show some of their results. And clinicians love to see results. Demos are important. And, you know, it's really how you can gather that initial interest, and then eventually you have to, you know, have a deep dive into the technology and talk more with the founders. So, you know, clinicians are very busy, but if we're able to, kind of. Catch your attention early on. That's how things begin. But I almost thought that there's no beginning. If you get to talk to founders, the trees much more it's being gathered. So So you know, it's a combination right initial interest, but also knowing what you're actually doing and the long term vision in the company.

Gavin Leonard  20:20  
Would you agree with that Wayne is a good way to get into a clinician?

Wayne Huang  20:24  
Yeah, certainly. I think the clinician is certainly very busy. You only get couple of minutes if you waited like outside the clinic door for a couple hours, so you had to be very precise. I have a really strong elevator pitch to show your technology, your vision, how you can help the clinician. You know, you have to give some, take some. So you have to like, Oh, this is innovative. You can help you publish, or something like that. But you had to be, I think persistence kind of approaching investor, you know, it's an investor relationship, but it's not, maybe not necessarily giving you money, but also clinical expertise, building that relationship. You know, we physicians, they Value Trust, long term relationship. So you just have to knock on the door every couple months, you know, not very pesky, but you know, they had to be gentle. And kind of feel like, like the clinician as like a small animal, kind of be persistent, but keep building on that relationship. And then when the trust is there, the clinician, you know, usually they will. If you find a good clinician to take you under the wings, I think he will really get you through a lot of hurdles, like implementation, reimbursement. I think it's really important to to do that. So I suggest the persistence, but not too pesky.

Jeremy Teoh  22:03  
Yeah. Just want to add one more comment. Is that, you know, after all, you need to reach out to the clinicians for potential. I'd say so recently, I also have an encounter that we did a first in human trial robotic system. And I felt it was really good. And then basically is, you know, clinicians are still looking into the data they want to have really know how to works. So basically, I told them, just make an unedited video, speed it up a bit, but unedited, because surgeons want to know, how is it like from the beginning to the end, and then we send it out to the network of clinicians worldwide. Within four weeks, we have like, 10 invitations in conferences, because all of them felt that it was a good thing. So when you have certain data, be brave to show you know, what's real incentive. You know, as you show many of companies might like might show some highlights, two seconds, three seconds. That's not going to work. You need to really show things to the clinician and gain the traction by real data at the end of the day.

Jeyla Sadikova  23:15  
Now I want to add to that, Gavin, if I may, when we send Dex to traditional VC firms, traditional investors. It's, it's the deck, you know, right? It's, it's about, you know, this is the problem solution. This is how we commercialize. This is, these are the milestones when we send something to clinicians, as investors or as partners. It's, it's a lot about data. It's a lot about the tech. How does it work? How is it going to improve your clinical workflow? You know, the papers that we have published. So it's very data heavy, as compared to a traditional VC or a traditional investor. Yeah,

Gavin Leonard  23:53  
that's a very good point. So like with Medtech syndicates, we are trying to get as many clinicians involved in the investment of startups, because we really do feel that there's a gap. At the moment, it's very difficult to fundraise. But clinicians really do understand the UMA clinical need better than anybody. What what do you think we could do to increase the number of clinicians who are interested in investing. So I'll put that to all of you. So maybe we'll start with you, Michel, what do

Michel Bielecki  24:25  
you think? I think it honestly boils down to education and getting people into the mindset of, I can actually change something very early on, and that's why I would always say, involve universities. That's where it starts. That's where people get trained and educated, and that's where the mindset comes from.

Gavin Leonard  24:46  
Good point, well, I'm not a

Jeyla Sadikova  24:49  
clinician, but I would agree with Michel. We so we started in Switzerland, and then we came into the US, and we instantly saw. That there was a massive difference between a clinician in Switzerland, which is just a clinician I work at a hospital or in a clinic, versus even the interns we have in the United States. They have backgrounds in medicine, but they have also worked for PE funds, VC firms, they worked in Goldman Sachs, and they worked in consulting, and they don't see it as, oh, now that I'm a clinician, I'm going to be a consultant or a banker. They see it as I want to get that experience, to be a better clinician, to understand the business of healthcare. And I think that's, as Michel said, it's a fundamental cultural difference, which I think we should celebrate and encourage in other cultures as well.

Wayne Huang  25:48  
Yeah. Michel said education is key, and I've been running a workshop, a short program for entrepreneurship, for physicians and engineers and business people for eight years, and this is the ninth year. So we train the close to 300 people in this effort on bringing venture capitalists, serial entrepreneurs. And so I think push changing medical education, like combining with business people and engineering school. So I think, I think education is definitely the key to to let more physicians learn that there this whole array of career choices that you don't have to be 100% in clinician. It can be like 90% 80% clinician, spend some of your time with industry, US industry and become industry some. So there's a lot of mixtures. And as you, as you said, in the US, I guess there's long history of these different options for clinician to develop his career that's not existent or not, that not people are not aware that exist in Asia, especially in Tai and Taiwan also. So I think, and a lot of my friends who are adventurous, they become the fund managers there working McKinsey. We went to us. So, so there's no, not that option in Asia. So we were, I think we have to develop that in all regions of the world so that this innovation doesn't exist in just select hubs in the world.

Jeremy Teoh  27:28  
I guess many clinicians are pretty much focused on clinic work. Mostly they never get the training. They don't they don't know how to file patent. They don't know who to find to create a genuine product. They do not know the actual regulatory pathway. But I think you know it, at least in our institution, we're really embracing this. So basically, we've launched programs, really training programs, so letting the younger colleagues understand, you know, what is actually the whole pathway, step by step. And you realize that you don't really need to teach in depth, in in everything, because that's not really possible, but inspiring them to know what is needed for each step, how to get things done. And then you'll be surprised that younger people are so smart and energetic and they will be able to fulfill it. I mean, they just need a bit of inspiration once they get to learn about it. I'm pretty sure most of our clinicians will be interested to contribute to the company, as well as being an investor.

Gavin Leonard  28:38  
Yeah, I fully agree. Like when we set up Medtech syndicates and we were talking to clinicians, the biggest thing that all the clinicians wanted to know about was the financial language. What's what's a cap table, you know, where, what's a safe these basic terms that a lot of people who are investors understand, a lot of clinicians have never made the first investment, so that that was kind of a very important thing. So we do a lot on the the education side. So what would you say just before we wrap up for advice? What's one thing piece of advice you would say to founders about getting clinicians involved in their startups?

Jeremy Teoh  29:18  
Okay, I'll begin so, for startups in particular, because it's still very early phase, getting in touch with the clinicians, understanding the clinical value and how to get things done in a very time efficient manner is very important. So there are many companies, you know, founders do things to a stage that is already, you know, having a product already it's a bit too late by that time to change everything. So for startups, engaging the right audience is so important. Yeah,

Wayne Huang  29:52  
my advice is to find the right clinician advisor, and because clinicians could be noise. So if you talk. To too many clinicians, and so you should talk to many, but then you should quickly narrow down to someone who can be really helpful and and stick with a couple and find the right ones who understand the business side as well.

Jeyla Sadikova  30:17  
Definitely gonna echo what Jeremy once said, definitely have to talk to clinicians. And I think to me, it was like an essential first step. But then you sometimes meet companies that have actually never spoken to clinicians or their future customers, and that's a bit shocking. So that's like, for sure, that's like what I call hygiene level. But on top of that, I think it's our job to be obsessed with a customer, to be obsessed with the market, to know everything that's happening. How do clinicians think? What are the big trends? And it's our job as founders to educate not just the investors or anybody else who's interested in market, but also perhaps clinicians as well, because they might be in their clinical world, and maybe we can talk to them about the big trends or the future that we see. So be obsessed with your market. Be obsessed with your customer.

Michel Bielecki  31:15  
I think you have to identify the industry leaders within the segment that you're operating, and then you have to be so convincing that they have to be enthusiastic about what you do, and if they are not, then you're doing something wrong, and maybe you have to

Gavin Leonard  31:30  
pivot. Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I think this session kind of highlights the fact that clinicians are really important as not just advisors, but investors. So I'd like you to help me thank the panel today. You've been amazing to be here. So thank you.