Earning News Coverage — Tips, Tools and Strategies for Effective Media Engagement | LSI USA '25

Laurie Doyle  0:05  
Good morning everyone, and welcome to the earning earning media coverage workshop. My name is Laurie Doyle. I am Executive Director and Partner of MC services. MC Services is a public relations and investor relations consulting firm focused on the life sciences. We are based out of Europe and the US, and we, just a few months ago, celebrated our 25th anniversary. It is my pleasure today to welcome our and introduce the person who is leading this workshop, and that is my colleague, Catherine Featherston. Catherine heads our international media team at MC services, and she also runs a media training program for our clients. Prior to joining MC services, Catherine was a journalist for many years, both working for business as well as science media, and that included APM health out of Europe, CNN and also Science magazine. I also will just briefly mention that Catherine recently moved back to the US, having spent 10 years in Berlin, so she has a great transatlantic perspective. And I also will say, when she tells you what journalists are looking for out of an interview, she knows what she's talking about. I'm also very excited to introduce this is the real special guest, Luc Mar who is managing partner of TVM Capital life science and an extremely experienced interviewee, and he'll be joining Catherine later on in the workshop. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Catherine and enjoy everybody.

Catherine Featherson  1:47  
Thank you, Lori, for that lovely introduction. I'm happy to be here and to see you all. Thanks for coming to the workshop. First slide, as discussed, we're talking about earning news coverage. So there's lots of ways to get your messages out there, but earning it rather than you know, buying it is challenging, so next slide please, or we have a clicker here. Actually, nobody showed me how to use that. Which button do I press? Thank you. Little bit about life MC services, life sciences, I think Lori did a great job of explaining what we do. But if you want to have a quick look at our key messages, please do so that's again me, I think. And there's enough said about that today's workshop, so we really only want to spend about 20 minutes on the presentation, because I want to give enough time to my guest star, Luc Mar to do our mock interview. We're going to talk about understanding the media landscape, which is quite complicated, strategies for effective news placement. And also, yeah, do a mock interview. Couple things that you know, I hope you'll walk away from this presentation with some tools, trying to define your outreach goals, targeting the right outlets, successfully landing your messages and connecting with journalists, conveying and being confident thinking On your feet, so understanding the media landscape? Yes, very, very complicated. This is sort of a general representation of the media ecosystem. So I'm going to ask you to sort of take off your stem hats for a minute and put on more of a humanities hat. And instead of a Medtech ecosystem, we're going to talk about the media ecosystem and and I like to sort of talk about it in terms of an attention economy. So I didn't coin that phrase. It's something that I picked up from one of my bosses from CNN. His name is Fareed Zakaria. Don't know if you guys watch GPS. It's a really great show. Essentially, we're talking about an environment now where human attention is treated as a scarce and valuable resource. So most of the groups here are distinctive in the sense that they're a little bit different, but they're very, very much connected. So that's what I'm hoping to get across today overall to be successful here, it really does help to have a strong network, because there's just a lot of noise, and to cut through that noise, it's good to have relationships. I mean, business is about relationships, right? So, okay, next slide. So take a closer look here at the mainstream legacy media. You also can call this the traditional media, and both groups here, top tier and local, so kind of both ends of the spectrum. What's published here is considered an important part of the public record in our political system as. Hopefully everybody knows, and it's aimed at a general consumer audience. So the stories here are sort of more general, and journalists tend to, kind of change beats more more frequently, meaning change topics. You have to remember, when you're engaging with with this level of media that you really need to sort of support any company assertions that you make. Here's where press releases come into play. You know, we get a lot of questions about whether or not press releases are really even necessary anymore, and really the truth is that they're very, very helpful. I mean, I suppose you can just try to put your news out via X or whatever platform you want. But in terms especially for Business Media, it really helps to have a press release for journalists, because it gives them a lot of background information. And when it's good to have these distributed through a wide network, because if they're researching you and they're thinking of writing a story, this provides them background information. So getting through this to this group is tough. I said that already, but it's worth the effort, because there are a lot of opportunities with with these groups. They they really need content, and that means lots of formats are available. You know? They they write about breaking news, feature stories. I mean, we all read this stuff, right? If you, if you, if you read the newspaper, you know what I'm talking about. Okay, next slide. The next group that I want to talk to you about is sort of a more specialized group, legacy media also. So there's a high, high degree of trust between these publications and their readers, but it's, it's a more narrow readership. So this is more B to B. We're, we're publishing here for professionals in in various economic sectors. As Lori mentioned, my most recent position as a journalist was with a pm health Europe, which is actually headquartered in in Paris. It used to be owned by Reuters. Long story of ownership changing hands, but I was in the Berlin Bureau for a few years, and I can tell you, credibility for these journalists is essential, so their readers depend on it, because often these publications also serve as databases. So sometimes the subscriptions for these can be a bit higher because they have almost sort of competitive intelligence, and a lot of the reporting the journalists for these publications do helps specialists in regulatory affairs, sales, you name it. So it's important to be accurate here. Although there are fewer formats than mainstream. We also have some financial trades represented here. Yeah, and the Wall Street Journal and venture capital you can see those. So the big difference between those is that the Wall Street Journal mainly looks at public companies, whereas venture capital journal is interested in private companies. So good to know. You know where you are and who you're targeting. These guys. You need to have some numbers, right? You can't sell a story just about a partnership if you're not willing to disclose how much. I mean, it's difficult, even if you can say a two digit sum or a three digit sum, that's really helpful. Has to be a slow news day for that to get through. So people, stories are really popular here and profiles, because we all want to know who the folks are that we're working with. Okay, next slide. This is social media. This is different, and this is not legacy media. So a lot of this is sort of personality driven, as we've come to know, although there are journalists too who host their own businesses, I guess, on on legacy media channels such as YouTube and things like that, and they, they are part of the legacy media system, but a lot of this is not so it's very, very tricky to navigate this. You have to be in careful of of engagement. Sometime the information can be taken out of context, and that's really something to keep an eye out for, because you should follow up on that and let them know that. You know that's not okay. So it's okay to do that. And here, credibility is less important. There's more of a focus on telling a good story, right? They want clicks, so Okay, next slide. Good. How to get the attention of the wonderful journalists at these publications? You have to sort of, there's, I'm sure there's a Native American expression, I know there was about, you know, taking off your shoes and stepping for a while on the shoes of somebody else. So for a minute, I'm going to ask you to consider the journalists perspective, right? A lot of us have our company news front of mind all the time. It's so exciting. We've been working on it for 10 years, and it's finally getting somewhere. But you have to remember that there are a few other companies out there who also are working on interesting innovation and exciting things. So try to keep that in mind and think about the new. News value, right? So what is the news value of what you're doing? How does it connect to the larger economy? How does it connect to innovation trends? How does it connect to what people need, patient needs, and you've got to have a good story, right? That's what a journalist is looking for. They really want something that's readable, or something that's engaging in terms of a data visualization or a video, an interview, right? So it's story, story, story. This is one of the oldest formats of sharing information. Is telling stories, right? This is how it all began. So it's important to to have a story, but since this is news, you've also got to have the facts. This is really important. So this can be about market opportunities, which, of course, you'll support with data. You can talk about your innovation and service focus. You can talk about product successes and failures. You know more more and more trade media in particular, want to want to hear about failures. Because, of course, as we know, in California, these are great learning experiences, right? And we want to share those learnings with our community. Also, it's important here to have illustrative detail. So I have heard a couple of interview well, not sort of talks here, where the first question is always, you know, tell me about yourself. What's your personal story? How did you get here? And this is also something that journalists are interested in knowing. So sort of you sort of, don't be shy, be ready to sort of talk about yourself in your own path. These, these kinds of messages are more successfully placed through anecdotal stories, so personal observations or conclusions, rather than systematic scientific evaluation, which is the data part, which you also need to have. So really, a good story will have both.

Okay, next slide, moving on to key messages. So I mentioned at the beginning of my presentation that, you know, MC services, we have, you know, three key messages that we like to share with people when we give presentations. You all have your own key messages. So these may be a little bit different for when you're talking to the press, then when what you're you're telling investors about yourself. They should be a little bit different, not terribly different, but they're really the most important statements that you you want to embed in the minds of your target audience. So these are, of course, the readers of the publication, of the journalists that you're speaking to. You should these are things that you always want the audience to associate with, with your company and take your time crafting these. They want to be you want them to be memorable, not only for the people who are you're talking to, but for yourself, because you're going to need to fall back on them a lot. Also make sure that you maintain a unified voice, internally as well as externally, on what these key messages are, the whole C suite management team should be on board and reinforcing the same messages. And don't be, you know. Don't be afraid to let your individual individuality shine, right, and in your curiosity. So when, when talking about what your company does, you know, try to make it relatable, you know, and personal. Okay, next slide. So here's one of the tools and tricks that I spoke about when we first started bridging, right? This is, I'm going to keep this short, because I think everybody here knows what I'm talking about, right? I mean, you've been in a conversation where you get a question that either you, you can't answer because you, you don't know the answer, or because you not at liberty, not at liberty, to say, either way, it's fine, don't, you know, don't get defensive. Don't worry about it. Just use one of these handy phrases at the bottom to kind of transition to something related. And this is where active listening comes in, related to the question, but maybe not exactly the question. You can say, I can't tell you that, but what I can say is this, and don't be afraid to do that. It's completely acceptable in terms of interview preparation right here, having an agency is helpful. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that it's always good to have some professionals, you know, at your back. But also keep in mind, when you're getting ready for an interview that it's very, very likely to be recorded and and often. I mean, I think in most states, in the US, you they have to tell you, at least, I don't, not sure, that a journalist has to ask you permission, but they have to let you know that they're going to record it, so rest assured about that. And then often, this might be something you don't know. Journalists are now starting to use AI tools just to create an automatic transcript. So it just makes note taking kind of a lot easier. I actually did that also when I was reporting, because, I mean, I would want the. The verbatim quotes for when I put my story together, so I wouldn't make any errors. But also, I need to think of how I'm structuring my story as I'm talking to you. So I'm making notes in my notebook about, you know, how this relates to other things, other people I've spoken to for this story, or other reports I've read things like that. So that's what happens in an interview. Here's some do's and don'ts. Again, I feel like a lot of this is intuitive, but you'd be surprised when people get nervous or have to talk to other people, they kind of forget about the basics. So I'm just going to take a minute to talk about this. Try to be authentic, communicate honestly and make it make try to establish a personal connection. It's much appreciated in today's the age of so much automation, that when two people come together and are discussing a topic, you know, it really, it really helps to make eye contact and to be relaxed and and just remember that you're you're talking to somebody who fundamentally will understand what you're saying. You know, it might take a little while to get there, but don't lose hope. Just keep trying to explain it. They'll pick it up. Prepare. Make sure you have your key messages memorized or in some note cards in your back pocket. Really important to take a minute to anticipate possible questions if you don't, if you haven't been given the question in advance, or the line of questioning. Again, this is something that's great when you're working with an agency, because often the agency representative will have a relationship with the journalist and be saying, you will be able to ask very easily. Can you send me the questions or let me know what exactly it is you want to talk about? But that doesn't that's not always possible. Maybe because the journalist is on other deadlines and it's really important for you to get your message out, so just take a minute to think about, you know, what they might ask you about, so that you're ready. I mean, obviously you do have your key messages, but be prepared for stuff that's Yeah, that might come your way. Active listening. Pay attention. Don't just be stuck in your head. You know, be in the moment. Stay calm if you get challenged. Use the bridge phrases. Be clear. Use everyday language and try to avoid jargon again. Human humanities, hat, not stem hat. Have your supporting materials ready. Offer documents that support your discussion points. Some don'ts are, don't waffle when, just end your answers. When, when you have nothing more to say. Don't, don't fill silences. If there's a moment of silence, it's, it's okay, it's, it's, it's potentially just something sinking in, or a thought process happening. Don't, don't feel like you need to just go on and on. If you have a question about it, don't be afraid to ask, Is that clear, you know? Or can I Is there anything else I can tell you about that? But don't just ramble, because I've had some interviews where people have dug themselves into pretty big holes, just going on and talking and revealing information that they probably shouldn't, and then that becomes my headline. So don't overreact. Try to keep your your cool if you find find yourself in some kind of an awkward situation, and refrain from negative talk. So as professionals, we all know that. Okay, I think I made it in time. Thank you all very, very much. We're going to now go to the mock interview. Luke, would you like to introduce yourself

Luc Marengere  18:37  
absolutely well, first and foremost, thank you for the opportunity to do the mock interview, and thank you all for attending this session. That's great. So my name is Dr Luc naranja. I'm a managing partner and a co owner at TVM Capital. My first love professionally was oncology research and immunology research. Worked for Amgen for for a number of years. And in 1996 the opportunity came about for me to join a venture capital fund out of Toronto. And at the time, I said I'd give it a one month trial. That's 29 years ago. So to say that I took to it like a fish to water would be an understatement. Thank you.

Catherine Featherson  19:19  
Cool. Thank you. Glad to have you here. So Luke and I are going to talk a little bit about his his investment company, TVM, investment life sciences, and I'm going to be taking on my former role as a journalist at APM health Europe. So full disclosure, this is, this is a little bit of play acting, because APM does not cover med tech, but just for our purposes, Luke, thanks for taking the time to talk to me always. Thank you. Glad you're here. So I'm trying to get to know TVM a little bit better. So can you talk to me a little bit about your investment strategy?

Luc Marengere  19:57  
Absolutely be my pleasure. So the investment strategy. G for TVM Capital stems from, in fact, the Transatlantic approach. So we have an office in Munich. We have an office in Montreal, right? So the Munich office, obviously, is the portal for Europe. The Montreal office is the portal for North America, all right. Importantly, we act as a lead investor, or CO lead investor. And if I may, if I may, take a short tangent, what I've observed today at this meeting is that there's a lot of funds attending LSI, a lot of people with with money, with new funds, and so on, so on. Yet, companies are all reporting the same thing, despite the fact that all these these funds are at the table and attending LSI still very difficult to raise money. Okay, there's a hierarchy when you're talking to funds. Is you want to target funds that lead, all right? So you can, you can speak to a number of funds, but the funds that are lead investors tend to create the momentum that you then need to leverage that in order to put together an entire round of financing. So importantly, TVM is a well known, well recognized lead investor across the pond right now, leading these transactions. It's very important for us to explain that we invest. Where do we invest, right? So we invest when companies tend to be early commercial, and that particular investment strategy is is on purpose. So we start to invest exactly where angels and series A investors start to be tapped out, but yet, before the classic growth funds decide that they're going to take this on, so we wedge ourselves right into this sort of void of capital, right that allows us as a fund to get a lot of very, very good deal flow right? And, and, and build these companies on a going forward basis, okay, with with minimal competition for those, for those deals, we like to invest in companies that have very differentiated products, so we don't do me too incremental. We have to have things that can completely reform standard of care. That's absolutely key. Like everybody else, we're inching forward more and more towards AI applications as well. Okay, so we've made a couple of investments with ai, ai inside, if I can phrase it that way, all right, we look at deals at companies that are developing these, these very innovative products, early commercial or at the stage of filing their PMA so that we can evaluate the clinical data, all right, and then after that, whether you're a European company looking to come to the United States, we can facilitate, pardon me, we can facilitate that once you Get into a new geography, you can't just say we've, we've developed clinical data in Europe, and we will apply it to the United States. You also have to have a strategy in the US to generate clinical data and vice versa. All right, so the entire implementation of moving forward with that commercialization all leading to roughly we have about a four, four year exit horizon. And the exit horizon of choice is a strategic M A right? So from day one, we will look at your at your company, at your value proposition, with an eye to build and make sure that we've got something to position within roughly four years for a strategic to acquire

Catherine Featherson  23:46  
Interesting, okay, that's great insight for our readers, who are founders and, you know, looking to approach people like you and companies like you. Can you give me a little of a sense of of your investment spread? How much of it is Medtech? How much, how much of it is biotech?

Luc Marengere  24:02  
Yeah, absolutely. So while, while we do invest in therapeutics, given that LSI is more of a medical device imaging type of focus, so I'll focus my answer on that little bit. But the the last fund that we raised was approximates $500 million in size, okay, and when we invest in companies, the initial check, or the initial commitment ranges between seven and 15, so that we're a credible lead investor when you're building a a syndicate. All right. Now that being said, when we, when we do invest in these companies, we, we, we definitely move forward with them with a growth kind of component, okay, so we build these companies step by step, okay? And from a medical device perspective, if we're going to be disruptive, right? So what are the areas that are really disruptive these days? Well, Structural Heart is very disruptive. Anything to do with. Cardiovascular All right, we've done orthopedics as well. We recently invested in a in a in a pulmonary deal that is essentially a scope, the bronchial scope, that delivers liquid nitrogen to potentially, for the first time, cure chronic bronchitis in patients with COPD. Okay. So, so why, if I may add to this, why invest in things that are structural, heart, cardiovascular, peripheral arterial disease, so vascular, broadly, right? So, in the end, you need to sell these products. So who do you sell it to while you sell it to the clinics within acute care facilities that are cash cows for hospitals interventional cardiology, electrophysiology, right? So you cater to these customers that are going to be very, very motivated to buy these products if they reduce costs and or increase efficiencies and, or increase revenues. Okay,

Catherine Featherson  26:04  
Thanks. That makes sense. I'm going to push you a little bit on one of the terms you used, disruptive. I keep you know, this is everywhere, right? And, and it's gotten so big, particular, particularly in today's political, you know, climate. I'd love to hear how you mean that, you know, because when we began with this, it was used to kind of differentiate BC, from other kinds of investment. But at TVM Capital, what? What do you think of is really disruptive,

Luc Marengere  26:32  
absolutely, so. So nothing, nothing better than then provide an example, I think, to answer that question, right? So let's, let's, let's look at the field of atrial fibrillation and and ventricular tachycardia ablations, right? So if you go and get any an ECG annually, right? They, they do a 12 lead ECG, very standard. They highlight an abnormal sinus rhythm, okay, so, Mr. So and so. Mr. So and So, you have a natural flutter, you have a fibrillation, you have a tachycardia. These things are serious. People do live with these things, but they're serious that can lead to strokes. It can leads to cardiac issues, etc, etc, right? So, the current standard of care is that you go into your electrophysiology clinic, you spend anywhere between five and 789, hours under full anesthesia. Right? The electrophysiologist that is, that is basically doing plumbing work and snaking catheters in in your body and fishing around in the cardiac muscle as it's beating right, looking for the spot where they need to ablate in order to fix that abnormal sinus rhythm, right? That can take many, many hours that comes with complications, right? That's the standard of care today. It's expensive, it's invasive, and it's time consuming, and it comes with risk, okay? Vector, medical, based in San Diego, innovated an algorithm that is driven by AI and machine learning, all right? That algorithm allows the following you go to the same general practitioner, your family doctor, right? They do an ECG, your annual checkout highlights the abnormal sinus rhythm. Stick that window into the algorithm. Within seconds, you now generate a 3d picture of the heart. I personally call it Google Maps for arrhythmias, right? So with a target, literally a red target, so your electrophysiologist, before you even show up in the room, knows exactly where to burn to fix the arrhythmia. Okay, so now you've decreased the risk of the patients, you've increased the efficiency of the electrophysiology procedure, right? That means that EP clinic can be even more profitable, because now they can do even more patients right. And then in electrophysiology, there's a stat that's very telling, even if you do your ablation right at one year, at least 50% of the people who got an ablation, regardless of whether it's fibrillation or tachycardia, they need to come back for a secondary ablation, because the first one didn't quite do the job. Right? With the vector technology, above and beyond all the acute benefits, right? The other big benefit is 13% versus 50% of people need a second ablation within within the year. So that's disruptive, and that's transformative.

Catherine Featherson  29:49  
Okay, great. That's a super example. Thank you for explaining that and continuing with this example. Can you? Can you explain to me how vector was able to convince you? What was it specifically about their pitch to you, in terms of, you know, the data or the team, what went through your mind when you were really thinking about putting money into this? 

Luc Marengere  30:08  
Yeah, it's never really one single sort of a ha moment, you know, or light bulb moment. It's actually quite, quite a a package of things, right? So to begin with, the management could not be more credible, and it is led by David Krummen, who's an electrophysiologist himself. He's the founder and so credibility of the of the team. Then we did, of course, due diligence on the AI algorithm to make sure that this thing was was properly constructed. Because, as you guys know, junk in, junk out, right? So that algorithm actually checked out, right? Then we did some due diligence on the on the clinical data that they have to validate the fact that this product is is as disruptive as it has the potential to be okay. And then when we spoke to electrophysiologists, they told us of how before vector, they used to do these procedures this way and that way, and so on and so on. After vector, it's transformed right then you speak to the to the nurses, that work in electrophysiology clinics, and they tell you, with vector, I never need to work overtime. We finish all the procedures on time, and I can go pick up my kids after school or or do something else, right? So it's all of these things, and speaking, of course, to many, many, many electrophysiologists because of the transatlantic nature, right? We speak to EPS on the European side who have never seen this V mapping technology. And we say, look, one day, this thing comes to you. What's your reaction to that? What do you need to see to endorse this technology? Right? All right. We spoke to potential strategics. I won't name them, but we spoke to potential strategics. If I bring you this, this bolus of data, right? What's your, what's your reaction in terms of potential strategic acquisition, right? So then you validate the investment stra the investment thesis. Yeah, right. So my money will go in, and it will sponsor use of proceeds. ABC, okay, do the use of proceeds? ABC, match what the buyers want to see.

Catherine Featherson  32:32  
Okay, makes, makes great sense. Thanks. You know, I'd love to get my hands on some of that due diligence you did. Is there any way you can share with me

Luc Marengere  32:39  
that would be a little tricky, because it's, of course, very confidential, and my investors would would probably frown upon sharing such information, but, But nice try.

Catherine Featherson  32:50  
Yeah. Okay, last question, because I think we want to leave some some room for the audience to ask questions. Supply chain disruptions, right? They've been affecting the industry since COVID 19, and now they continue to do so with the tariffs and whatnot. Can you talk to me a little bit about how this is all affecting the scalability of your med tech portfolio companies?

Luc Marengere  33:15  
Yeah, so that is, that's a a complex question, to which I will try to provide a simplified answer. Okay, so there, there are two elements to this, tariffs, which is more, more acutely relevant, supply chain issues, which was essentially a an aftermath of the COVID 19 business. I'll give you an example in that. Okay, let's deal with the with the with the former, right? With regards to tariffs, if you've got companies outside the United States right now, but selling in the United States, one of the things that you absolutely have to consider is opening up a US hub in which you transfer products, right? So, so the products are actually house or there's an inventory of your products in the United States ahead of tariffs coming into full swing. So you sell to the US from the US, even though you've manufactured everything outside the US, so you've basically, basically planted your inventory in the US. Now, US companies, sometimes they feel immune by these tariffs, but, but not quite, because even though you're US based companies, and you manufacture in the United States, your your parts and components may come from other countries for which tariffs apply, right? So what we've done in the portfolio is that we've bolstered the balance sheet of a number of these companies make sure they can stock up little bit over stock up on inventory ahead of tariffs kicking in, right? So now we're able to manufacture and scale because these companies were very proud that these companies are growing at 50 100% year over year. But you better have the. Tory to facilitate that growth, otherwise, you're shooting yourself in the foot. So from a supply chain perspective, let me give you an example. And this is one of the things that we bring at TVM. So when we get into a company that is commercial internally, we have expertise with regards to manufacturing automation, supply chain, QA, QC, supply chain robustness, right? So let me give you a very good example after the COVID 19 supply chain issues, right? That was wave one. Wave Two came from Chinese flooding the North American market with counterfeit parts. Okay? So if we didn't have in our companies a QA, QC process, here's what would have happened with one of our investee companies, who are very proud to be, to be shareholders in a Minneapolis based company called EGG Medical. Okay, EGG Medical has bit of a Fred Flintstone kind of product. It's, it's, it's not, AI, it's, it's not, it's not technically complicated. It's carbon fiber flaps that are lead based, right, that that form a cocoon around the table in a cath lab, right? So when you do an interventional cardiology procedure and you're using that C arm that irradiates. It causes scatter radiation, and everybody gets irradiated in the room. What that cocoon does is that it completely quenches it, right? So in 2022 supply chain issues here, then we readjust our supply chain to account for that. Then we realize internally that the flaps that we're getting coming from China don't contain lead, right? So you can imagine that if we didn't have a QA, QC process in house, those cocoons are sold. They're used in a cath lab with people thinking with with their little, little radiation badges, right? That we're getting protected. One month later, the radiation safety officer comes and collects the badges for anyone who's worked in a lab and used radiation before. And within hours, they come back and they say, WTF, right? What is going on right? And then that particular product is then recalled, lawsuits, and it's a write off. Okay? So we were able to avoid all of that, that risk by having proper QA, QC for supply chain logistics in these companies, which the the usually the management team. When you're early commercialization, you just want to sell. You just want that top line revenue to look bigger and bigger and bigger every day. You don't necessarily think about product recalls, lawsuits and write offs, right? So we were able to do that. But at the same time, I highlight a risk that growth is great, controlled and validated, growth is better.

Catherine Featherson  38:07  
Thank you. Great example. I think I'm going to go with the headline, WTF. Fred Flintstone, who struggles with scalability. Thank you so much. Is there anything I haven't asked that I should know about?

Luc Marengere  38:21  
Well maybe thank you for the opportunity. I would underline perhaps that so at TVM, I hinted to that a little bit in the interview, but internally, the skill sets, the expertise range from science, clearly manufacturing and supply chain and QA, QC, but also clinical, regulatory right, and clearly financial right with people who can structure a deal. Since we're lead investors, we've got I bank backgrounds within the team that is further supported by a quite a network of experts as well. So we bring all of that to the table with with with managements. So this is how we end up building syndicates, because people, people want to have access to that, and this how we end up getting good companies because they want to have access to that. Great. Thanks again. You're welcome.

Catherine Featherson  39:18  
So we have 40 seconds left any questions. 

Audience Question  39:23  
You mentioned that you do due diligence on the AI algorithms. What does that involve?

Luc Marengere  39:27  
Ah, so you get a, you get basically a a computer science engineer who looks at your algorithm, looks at the code, okay, and and so thank you for that question, because a lot of companies boast AI, okay, the little machine learning thing in AI, which means that the code is connected right and feeds on itself right, is not necessarily present. So you can. Claim AI where, at the end of day, is just a good piece of software, but there is no AI capacity to it. It what it will not learn and and do things better over time. So if you're going to have a product that you're putting out there with a claim that this and an AI machine learning advantage to this software, then you better make sure that it actually has that ML function to the algorithm. Otherwise, you're just selling software. You're welcome. 

Catherine Featherson  40:36  
Thanks. 

Luc Marengere  40:37  
Thank you.